Feature Request : MPE support

Official support for: u-he.com
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aMUSEd
KVRAF
29989 posts since 14 Sep, 2002 from In teh net

Post Fri Aug 10, 2018 1:19 pm

pdxindy wrote:
Echoes in the Attic wrote:
aMUSEd wrote:
Echoes in the Attic wrote:
aMUSEd wrote:So I have a Seaboard block now - what's the easiest way to get up and running with u-he synths, what works and what doesn't? I have Logic, Waveform and Bitwig which I believe all support MPE.
It’s going to be a bit different in each host but in bitwig it’s easy. Set the u-he plugin to “force mpe”,
Where do I find that setting?
Right-click the bitwig device, it’s a menu option there.
Also, selecting the device puts the option in the inspector as well... along with PB range (Bitwig 2.4 beta 2)
Ah, haven't activated my upgrade yet (waiting till release)

bafonso
KVRist
48 posts since 20 Nov, 2007

Re: Feature Request : MPE support

Post Fri Aug 10, 2018 1:27 pm

aMUSEd wrote:+/-48 sounds rather excessive, I thought most synths don't go above +-24 usually so assumed a range of 48 would break down into -24 to + 24, +-48 is 96!
96 is good if you plan on multiple octave slides for example. The idea is that you adjust the PB range to your needs. If you're only planning vibrato, you typically set a low pb in order to have a lot of resolution during your vibrato.

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aMUSEd
KVRAF
29989 posts since 14 Sep, 2002 from In teh net

Re: Feature Request : MPE support

Post Fri Aug 10, 2018 1:32 pm

Yeah but Omnisphere for example won't go above +- 24

Terrafractyl
KVRist
347 posts since 15 Nov, 2005 from Melbourne Australia

Re: Feature Request : MPE support

Post Fri Aug 10, 2018 1:48 pm

Mpe has been pushing Devs to out larger pb on ranges on their sythns, many are still catching up. I think I remember Urs grumbling about making oscillators that can do pb ranges of +-48 so I guess it is not a trivial thing.
It is a nice bonus to be able to do nice long bends, but I also like setting the pb smaller to make nicer smoother vibrato. As said it depends on the patch your Trying to make/use.
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EvilDragon
KVRAF
17158 posts since 7 Jan, 2009 from Croatia

Re: Feature Request : MPE support

Post Fri Aug 10, 2018 2:03 pm

Just note that the wider the PB range is the coarser the resolution becomes... I mean, it's a given, but still, it has to be mentioned.

Not a problem if the synth has a lag processor/slew limiter, but if it doesn't, oh boy.

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pdxindy
KVRAF
14153 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds

Re: Feature Request : MPE support

Post Sat Aug 11, 2018 5:52 am

aMUSEd wrote:Yeah but Omnisphere for example won't go above +- 24
Since 2.4 Beta 2 you can now set the range in Bitwig per device. So for Omnisphere, you would set the Omni patch to +/-24 and select the Omni device in Bitwig and set it to +/-24

Echoes in the Attic
KVRAF
6183 posts since 12 May, 2008

Re: Feature Request : MPE support

Post Sat Aug 11, 2018 8:37 am

aMUSEd wrote:
Echoes in the Attic wrote:
aMUSEd wrote:Thanks - I presume I also need to toggle convert Pitchbend?

PB range is set to +-24 (so 48 right?)
No you don’t want to convert the pitchbend. Not sure but I think that’s meant to concert to normal pitchbend but you want to leave it per channel/note.

Bend range should be set to whatever your linnstrument and vst is set to. Normal mpe is actually +/-48 but you can use other ranges now in bitwig, though like I said I believe the latest beta has a bug with this that screws up midi coming from hardware after recording it, for anything other than +/-24. See the bitwig forum for info there.
+/-48 sounds rather excessive, I thought most synths don't go above +-24 usually so assumed a range of 48 would break down into -24 to + 24, +-48 is 96!
Yeah 48 notes up or down is excessive but it is the mpe spec, I suppose so that is could cover any kind of slide instrument that might be emulated or synthesized by a vst. It’s up to the DAW if it wants to support lesser ranges, which thankfully bitwig now will.
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bafonso
KVRist
48 posts since 20 Nov, 2007

Re: Feature Request : MPE support

Post Sat Aug 11, 2018 3:38 pm

It's semitones, 4 octaves, I don't see this would be excessive. You can do bigger slides on a full sized continuum for example.

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zerocrossing
KVRAF
9311 posts since 26 Jun, 2006 from San Francisco Bay Area

Re: Feature Request : MPE support

Post Sat Aug 11, 2018 6:21 pm

Echoes in the Attic wrote:
bafonso wrote:
Echoes in the Attic wrote: Bitwig 2.4 beta 2
For a moment I dreamed there was a beta Diva version with better MPE implementation :)
Divas mpe implementation is pretty much complete for what the synth does (although expression scaling would be cool).
For me, expression scaling is the difference between being usable and not, especially when pressure is concerned. The bad part about controllers like the Rolis are that you can’t not send pressure. There’s no “aftertouch.” It’s “alwaystouch.” Roli makes its instrument have built in ways to put a threshold on input an scale it. I’ve been asking for this to be part of the control software, but it doesn’t look like they’re really interested in implementing that, so I’m kind of confined to software that has it.
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Echoes in the Attic
KVRAF
6183 posts since 12 May, 2008

Re: Feature Request : MPE support

Post Sun Aug 12, 2018 11:07 am

zerocrossing wrote:
Echoes in the Attic wrote:
bafonso wrote:
Echoes in the Attic wrote: Bitwig 2.4 beta 2
For a moment I dreamed there was a beta Diva version with better MPE implementation :)
Divas mpe implementation is pretty much complete for what the synth does (although expression scaling would be cool).
For me, expression scaling is the difference between being usable and not, especially when pressure is concerned. The bad part about controllers like the Rolis are that you can’t not send pressure. There’s no “aftertouch.” It’s “alwaystouch.” Roli makes its instrument have built in ways to put a threshold on input an scale it. I’ve been asking for this to be part of the control software, but it doesn’t look like they’re really interested in implementing that, so I’m kind of confined to software that has it.
I know what you mean. I no longer have a block but isn’t there a way to change the overall pressure curve in the dashboard?
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bafonso
KVRist
48 posts since 20 Nov, 2007

Re: Feature Request : MPE support

Post Sun Aug 12, 2018 11:38 am

You can run a script on incoming midi data in logic, maybe there's also a way to do it in bitwig. You could implement this easily using a script.

Echoes in the Attic
KVRAF
6183 posts since 12 May, 2008

Re: Feature Request : MPE support

Post Tue Aug 14, 2018 1:53 am

zerocrossing wrote:
Echoes in the Attic wrote:
bafonso wrote:
Echoes in the Attic wrote: Bitwig 2.4 beta 2
For a moment I dreamed there was a beta Diva version with better MPE implementation :)
Divas mpe implementation is pretty much complete for what the synth does (although expression scaling would be cool).
For me, expression scaling is the difference between being usable and not, especially when pressure is concerned. The bad part about controllers like the Rolis are that you can’t not send pressure. There’s no “aftertouch.” It’s “alwaystouch.” Roli makes its instrument have built in ways to put a threshold on input an scale it. I’ve been asking for this to be part of the control software, but it doesn’t look like they’re really interested in implementing that, so I’m kind of confined to software that has it.
You can still get a lot of usability without the scaling, but it’s best to design patches where when you hit it with soft velocity come in slowly with the pressure and are meant to trigger the full pressure at full velocity. If that makes sense. You can’t teally use it as aftertouch like you would on a keyboardnwith aftertouch. This is perfectly demonstrated when using trillion patches with a Roli or linnstrument. You get crazy vibrato goingnon with every patch. Like you said it’s more of always touch, which is why pressure is a better word. But for that kind of expression where you might want to add a little something after the soundnis fully heard, you use the y axis because it’s totally independent. But pressure and velocity are usually related. Like a string being able to gently swell or attack straight away. U-he synths work pretty well when you assign something like cutoff to both attack and pressure so you have the choice of slow or fast attack. Some synths get weird conflicts with that.
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Howard
KVRAF
3645 posts since 23 May, 2004 from Bad Vilbel, Germany

Re: Feature Request : MPE support

Post Wed Aug 15, 2018 12:39 am

Tip: Multiply pressure with itself for a more subtle curve.

machinesworking
KVRian
1325 posts since 15 Aug, 2003 from seattle

Re: Feature Request : MPE support

Post Tue Aug 28, 2018 11:18 pm

So, following Roli's video posted earlier on how to set up frequency/cutoff for slide in Diva, in Reaper I'm not getting polyphonic filter response. Any slide affects all notes with VCF-1 Frequency set to controller 74 on 16 midi channels. Am I missing something here?
Assigning Pressure works and pitch is polyphonic.

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