Echoboy replacement aka ColorSpray?

[Russell Grand]

There is no substitute for Echoboy, not even CoCo (sorry u-he). Maybe one day...

[EvilDragon]

CoCo doesn't even try to replace it, anyone thinking that is missing the point.

What it DOES do, is sound better than EchoBoy when emulating BBDs.

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

CoCo doesn't even try to replace it, anyone thinking that is missing the point.

What it DOES do, is sound better than EchoBoy when emulating BBDs.

+1.

One could also argue that Echoboy doesn't have any equivalent to the Key Follow, Freeze, and ducking (particularly the feedback ducking, which you couldn't just do via a send like amp ducking) features of CoCo. Let's not even get into Echoboy's non-resizable, black on black GUI. Echoboy, on the other hand, allows you to do more around shaping the taps and feedback (rhythm mode, independent filters, EQ, diffusion). They're just completely different products with different features.

If you wanted an EchoBoy replacement, I'd probably look at Blue Cat's Late Replies since it's modular nature and ability to insert plugins into the feedback path can probably do everything Echoboy does and more. Again, way different product though.

[midi_transmission]

Yes it's not about comparing Coco with Echoboy. Complete different product!

The point was just to express that I would ream of a Echoboy equivalent from uhe. Related to 'modular nature' comment. I think you're missing the point. It's not about 'just possibilities' its about that Echoboy has a perfect feature set (imho), EVERY feature make sense in it. Even thoughit has a lot of knobs I consider it still as a 'minimalistic' design since every knob makes still sense. It's great to control and sounds very good in a musical context (means it ca get the sound I image and hear in records quite fast). I don't want all possibilities and tweak ages to get near to a good sound.

[pdxindy]

Yes it's not about comparing Coco with Echoboy. Complete different product!

The point was just to express that I would ream of a Echoboy equivalent from uhe. Related to 'modular nature' comment. I think you're missing the point. It's not about 'just possibilities' its about that Echoboy has a perfect feature set (imho), EVERY feature make sense in it. Even thoughit has a lot of knobs I consider it still as a 'minimalistic' design since every knob makes still sense. It's great to control and sounds very good in a musical context (means it ca get the sound I image and hear in records quite fast). I don't want all possibilities and tweak ages to get near to a good sound.

totally reasonable for you to dream... and to ask for it... however, since u-he just came out with CoCo and has various other projects in the works, even if they decided to do it, it would be years before it would ever see the light of day. Plus it is my impression that Urs is not interested to duplicate someone elses plugin and then directly compete with them which is what you are suggesting.

[Elektronisch]

I personaly dont care if it replicates or not coco sounds amazing and for my needs i prefer it over echoboys flexibility. Especialy i love how the tail eq is being modulated and that this plugin has sidechain and on top of that the sound does not stack. These are qualities that echoboy does not have and they are above what echoboy offers or any delay thats on the market and thats great because i wanted to buy CoCo not a direct echoboy replacement.

[midi_transmission]

totally reasonable for you to dream... and to ask for it... however, since u-he just came out with CoCo and has various other projects in the works, even if they decided to do it, it would be years before it would ever see the light of day. Plus it is my impression that Urs is not interested to duplicate someone elses plugin and then directly compete with them which is what you are suggesting.

Yeah thats all I want to do. No bad karma here. I just want to express some personal wished and feedback here. Nothing more.

[EvilDragon]

Also Echoboy introduces PDC, CoCo doesn't (necessarily - there's an option to disable the 16 samples buffer in Preferences).

[midi_transmission]

Guys this not about a fight here. We need not to proof that one is better.

There are certain stuff were CoCo is fantastic (especially everything with pitch modulation), it has a really really good basic sound, but it misses the more lofi,crunshy, filter stuff in the wet part. And the wet part is not tweakable enough (means tweaking the wet 'color' while we hear the delay via live knob tweaking) to make great dub delays out of it (imho).

So two different units. I really just wanted to express what I was hoping for in a delay. Simple feedback from a single user.

[Russell Grand]

CoCo doesn't even try to replace it, anyone thinking that is missing the point.

What it DOES do, is sound better than EchoBoy when emulating BBDs.

Never said it was trying to, nor that I thought it was. I certainly haven't missed the point.

I'm happy for you, though I'll kindly disagree. As excited as I was for Colour Copy, it just hasn't clicked with me as I'd hoped it would. But the fact that I'd rather stick with Echoboy doesn't take away one bit from anyone who feels differently.

Finally I'll just say that CoCo is the first u-he plug that hasn't completely wowed me. There's a good chance that that's because I got my hopes up way too much; if so, that's all on me. Perhaps in time, it will grow on me.

[Russell Grand]

Guys this not about a fight here. We need not to proof that one is better.

There are certain stuff were CoCo is fantastic (especially everything with pitch modulation), it has a really really good basic sound, but it misses the more lofi,crunshy, filter stuff in the wet part. And the wet part is not tweakable enough (means tweaking the wet 'color' while we hear the delay via live knob tweaking) to make great dub delays out of it (imho).

So two different units. I really just wanted to express what I was hoping for in a delay. Simple feedback from a single user.

Fair points.

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

I can understand wanting more control, but I feel it can do crunchy lo-fi delays just fine. Jack up the input knob to +12 or more, compensate the output, start with the Colour and Saturation knobs at 12 o'clock and boom: crunchy delays. Want 'em darker? Start by adjusting the brightness knob downwards. Want even more saturation? Increase the saturation knob or add more compensated input. If you want more resonance, try a different color mode. Keep in mind, it's not a tape delay either, so don't expect Space Echo sounds shouldn't be expected, but I bet if you threw it on a send and added something like Outerspace's spring reverb it'd be fantastic for dubby delays.

As you already know, you're not going to get precise control of the feedback with independent HP/LP filters or the ability to notch out certain frequencies, but I think it CoCo can get plenty dubby as-is. Especially once you start automating the delay time. Echoboy just doesn't do the pitch bomb type effects anywhere near as well IMO.

Anyway, not trying to be argumentative, but just trying to offer some advice on how to get some crunchier, lo-fi tones out of CoCo.

[pdxindy]

Guys this not about a fight here. We need not to proof that one is better.

There are certain stuff were CoCo is fantastic (especially everything with pitch modulation), it has a really really good basic sound, but it misses the more lofi,crunshy, filter stuff in the wet part. And the wet part is not tweakable enough (means tweaking the wet 'color' while we hear the delay via live knob tweaking) to make great dub delays out of it (imho).

So two different units. I really just wanted to express what I was hoping for in a delay. Simple feedback from a single user.

I quite like CoCo because the basic sound is excellent and it is fast and easy.

Besides that, the two Bitwig delays Delay-2 and Delay-4 allow me to do anything I would ever want... Delay-2 can have any device or chain of devices (Bitwig or VST) in the feedback path. Delay-4 has 4 delay lines and each one can have its own device or chain of devices in its feedback path. Add in the powerful Bitwig modulation system and I can craft any sort of delay I can imagine. Any sort of lofi, crunchy, crushed, filtered, pitch shifted, wet signal is easily accomplished. And of course any such setup can be saved as a preset for later use.

[drzhnn]

I managed to get very crunchy lo-fi delays from CoCo, when using it on a separate FX track, after some gate or transient shaper plugins. So before getting into CoCo, the signal gets through say the gate/expander plugin, that cuts off quiet attack and release portions of the signal, adds random clicks etc, and then this goes into CoCo and multiplies beautifully...

[dangayle]

We also did not want to go overly extreme with distortion, noise or modulation. We wanted as much sweet spot as possible. As in, hide the explosive nature of real BBDs or the overly lofi character of tape echoes.

In our design process, each knob and switch was hours of discussion, both its existence and its range. The simple question always was: "How many more people do we get than we lose because of this?" - and that's not just marketing speech, it's about finding a sweet spot between "too little, too late" and "feature creep".

That's what the tweaks page is for! You're already known for that in your Repro plugins, why not go that route?