MPE with Hardware Synths

[ThomasHelzle]

Yes, there can be real compiled Java controller libraries now too for a while (see Moss' newer scripts), so they may indeed be compiled into the main application.
While Java of course is the better language over Java Script and much faster, I still think it's not a good idea for small scripts to put them out of reach of the user this way - that was the one strength of the initial approach.

BTW: if you modify the original LinnStrument Java Script, make sure you use a unique UUID in the declaration, so that the two don't collide - scripts are only differentiated via that UUID, not their name or content.

Cheers,

Tom

[BobDog]

Hi Tom,

Thanks for the info.

As I couldn't find the Linnstrument script I modified your Seaboard script and I did change the guid

All the best and thanks for your help.

Andy

[BobDog]

Heard back from BW, they can replicate the half range on recording and it will be fixed.

Concerning the old pitchbend being left behind after deleting the clip they say this is normal, I have emailed back about the issues with treating data like pitchbend as track automation data rather than data that is connected to the notes/clip.

Concerning the Linnstrument only working correct at 24 I have heard nothing back, on the linnstrument forum Roger Linn is dealing with this one.

With beta 3:

1/2 range PB in OSX fixed

From what I gather from BW the Linnstrument only works at 24PB and if we think this is a bug then we are misunderstanding the way MPE works.

Old pitchbend still left behind and causing havoc when recording over deleted tracks (non MPE).

No MPE yet on hardware instrument, but we expected that.

[ThomasHelzle]

Yay for the PB range!

I had a conversation with support as well and as I understand it, they try to implement the "pure" MPE, where everything is basically automatic: The controller is configured by the script to work at it's optimum range, plugins announce their ability to work with MPE and are then also configured automagically... (so the "Force MPE" setting should never be needed).

I personally do not believe in this scenario to really work in reality.
Humans are different in what they feel to be optimal ranges, we use plugins that do not adhere to those standards and I'm not even sure how many plugins or synths are available that actually do the automatic thing.

So like it was with Midi Channels, I guess I'll just go find my own workarounds.
Heck, I do surround sound in BWS which it absolutely does not support at all...

Cheers,

Tom

[pdxindy]

From what I gather from BW the Linnstrument only works at 24PB and if we think this is a bug then we are misunderstanding the way MPE works.

Since there is no practical reason to set the Linnstrument to anything other than 24 it just doesn't matter.

[BobDog]

It does matter, for instance all the MPE presets in Strobe and Cypher are set to 48, so it is useful to have the linnstrument set to 48, otherwise you have to edit every patch.

Also if you have synths that only support 12 PB then it is useful to have the linnstrument set to 12.

Its a simple fix for them to put in, the controller script I posted earlier works perfectly with the Linnstrument at 12/24/48. It isn't a problem with BW just with the linnstrument script. The Roli scripts also allow you to set the PB range.

[BobDog]

Yay for the PB range!

I had a conversation with support as well and as I understand it, they try to implement the "pure" MPE, where everything is basically automatic: The controller is configured by the script to work at it's optimum range, plugins announce their ability to work with MPE and are then also configured automagically... (so the "Force MPE" setting should never be needed).

I personally do not believe in this scenario to really work in reality.
Humans are different in what they feel to be optimal ranges, we use plugins that do not adhere to those standards and I'm not even sure how many plugins or synths are available that actually do the automatic thing.

So like it was with Midi Channels, I guess I'll just go find my own workarounds.
Heck, I do surround sound in BWS which it absolutely does not support at all...

Cheers,

Tom

Yep I think that is exactly what they think, of course it doesn't help with any multi-timbral plugin or synth that can be used as an "MPE" sound source but doesn't announce it supports MPE. In the end the user knows what things can do having something else enforced by the developers is not a good idea from my perspective.

But really now we have a fix for everything, if you want 12/24/48 and the ability to work with non MPE aware plugins then you can just use another controller script, and there is the workaround of using a midi-passthrough plugin and setting that to MPE to get the Midi Hardware device working to control multi-timbral hardware synths. So it is looking pretty good.

The one remaining gotcha is playing the same note twice in MPE mode, as this works in "normal" mode I guess they can fix the MPE one as well.

[pdxindy]

It does matter, for instance all the MPE presets in Strobe and Cypher are set to 48, so it is useful to have the linnstrument set to 48, otherwise you have to edit every patch.

Also if you have synths that only support 12 PB then it is useful to have the linnstrument set to 12.

Its a simple fix for them to put in, the controller script I posted earlier works perfectly with the Linnstrument at 12/24/48. It isn't a problem with BW just with the linnstrument script. The Roli scripts also allow you to set the PB range.

I just leave Linnstrument at 24... If I add Bazille and set Bazille Pitchbend to +/- 12 and then in Bitwig set the MPE pitchbend range to 12, it works as expected. If I add RePro5 and set its pitchbend range to 48. I set the PB range in Bitwig to 48 and it works correctly. Both for recording and playback in both cases.

Of course I'm fine with adding PB range option in the script. I'll just never need to use it cause it works as expected right now.

[BobDog]

Ah, well this doesn't work correctly for me.

The record and playback of pitchbend is different. It sounds correct when recording, but wrong when playing back. (unless the MPE PB in BW is set to 24 and the plugin is set to 24)

Also the note expression pitch data is recorded incorrectly.

Are you on Windows or Mac?

[pdxindy]

Ah, well this doesn't work correctly for me.

The record and playback of pitchbend is different. It sounds correct when recording, but wrong when playing back. (unless the MPE PB in BW is set to 24 and the plugin is set to 24)

Also the note expression pitch data is recorded incorrectly.

Are you on Windows or Mac?

Mac... 2.4 Beta 3

I just checked and the data is also recorded correctly for me... whether the VST is set to +/- 12 or +/- 48 (as long as Bitwig device is set the same) In all cases, Linnstrument stays at 24

[BobDog]

I just checked and it is working as you say!

I think the issue I was seeing was caused by me setting the PB on the Linnstrument to match the BW device and plugin, if you do this is doesn't work.

So I guess I better send an email back to the BW guys saying it was me being an idiot rather then them, which is what they were trying to explain to me!

[ThomasHelzle]

I don't think anybody is being an idiot here.
What you did is what I personally would have expected to work - all parties involved using the same setting. That is what you normally would expect to work.
Support told me they plan to do a tutorial on this and IMO that is badly needed to end the confusion.

Great it works for you now!!!

Cheers,

Tom

[pdxindy]

What you did is what I personally would have expected to work - all parties involved using the same setting. That is what you normally would expect to work.

I'm glad it doesn't work that way... I appreciate that I can quickly switch tracks and record without having to adjust the Linnstrument settings!

[pdxindy]

I just checked and it is working as you say!

I think the issue I was seeing was caused by me setting the PB on the Linnstrument to match the BW device and plugin, if you do this is doesn't work.

So I guess I better send an email back to the BW guys saying it was me being an idiot rather then them, which is what they were trying to explain to me!

It's somewhat confusing stuff... and glad it is working for you!

[BobDog]

Hi Guys,

I think they could maybe help the confusion by labelling the setting slightly differently maybe "PB range of device/plugin".

I had wondered why they had the PB range in the device rather than in the controller settings and must admit thought it was just a quick way of matching up to the settings on the controller without having to go to the controller screen, it makes more sense now I know it is to match the PB for the plugin so it can scale the controllers PB to match.