Buy Omnisphere 2

[Echoes in the Attic]

I am talking about the sound design possibilities when loading sample libraries and comparing, like I said, to similar sound design libraries.

You cannot load sample libraries... you only have what is included with Omni.

This is driving me insane. I had just done a whiskey tasting so excuse me for mixing up my words. Let me rephrase:
“I am talking about the sound design possibilities when loading samples and comparing, like I said, to similar sound design libraries”. There. I didnt mean to put library in the sentence. Most likely I shifted the order in the sentence. I might have also meant “I am talking about the sound design possibilities when loading sample libraries [in Kontakt] and comparing [Omnisphere], like I said, to similar sound design libraries”. Might have been poor wording, don’t remember my exact thoughts. But this is getting crazy now.

[noiseboyuk]

This Kontakt vs Omni confusion does seem to be a uniquely KVRoid thing. I know exactly the Kontakt libraries you mean Echoes, not the orchestral or band instrument stuff.

pdxindy - congratulations on being the 1,000th KVR poster to make this factually incorrect statement! Since 2.0 you can import samples, and indeed many 3rd party banks now include their own samples too. What you can't do (without using an ugly ill-fitting fudge) is import multisamples.

So - simple principle, you'd think...

User / 3rd party samples - Omni tick!
User / 3rd party multisampled libraries - Omni cross.
Samples for sound design sugary goodness - Omni yum yum!
Samples for full blown realistic sample libraries - Omni no no.

Cut out and keep this as a handy aide memoir!

[ghettosynth]

Ok so now we are talking about emulating real instrument behavior? Obviously kontakt is better at that. I use it all the time for all kinds of instruments from guitars and bass to brass, winds, orchestras etc.

I am explaining why Kontakt librararies have more value to people. BTW: it has naught, per se, to do with "real instruments", that's just the example that I used and the samples that people think have value.

We can’t seriously talk about this when the goal posts get moved so much. I was talking the value of the sample library and what the user can do to it (and more importantly quickly and easily).

It was you who equivocated the value samples in Omni to Kontakt so no whining about moving the goal posts. The manly thing to do is simply admit that someone else has a point that you didn't see.

Although, it seems that you still don't get it. The value of the sample library depends on what you can do with it. I didn't buy Scarbee Funk guitarist because the samples have value, I bought it because the "instrument" has value. Those very same samples would be worth less in some other instrument, e.g., Omnisphere, if it couldn't emulate the behavior of the instrument.

So, either you want to understand why some person will say "Omnisphere is overpriced but kontakt libraries aren't," or you don't. If you don't, then that's the very definition of willful ignorance on your part.

[Echoes in the Attic]

Ok so now we are talking about emulating real instrument behavior? Obviously kontakt is better at that. I use it all the time for all kinds of instruments from guitars and bass to brass, winds, orchestras etc.

I am explaining why Kontakt librararies have more value to people. BTW: it has naught, per se, to do with "real instruments", that's just the example that I used and the samples that people think have value.

We can’t seriously talk about this when the goal posts get moved so much. I was talking the value of the sample library and what the user can do to it (and more importantly quickly and easily).

It was you who equivocated the value samples in Omni to Kontakt so no whining about moving the goal posts. The manly thing to do is simply admit that someone else has a point that you didn't see.

Although, it seems that you still don't get it. The value of the sample library depends on what you can do with it. I didn't buy Scarbee Funk guitarist because the samples have value, I bought it because the "instrument" has value. Those very same samples would be worth less in some other instrument, e.g., Omnisphere, if it couldn't emulate the behavior of the instrument.

So, either you want to understand why some person will say "Omnisphere is overpriced but kontakt libraries aren't," or you don't. If you don't, then that's the very definition of willful ignorance on your part.

When you say samples have value depending on “what you can do with it”, this can mean quite different things. I genuinely thought you meant in terms of manipulating the samples and using it to create interesting tones. This interpretation makes sense because we are talking about a synthesizer here. It seems more clear now that you are talking about having sample based instruments that are scripted to play and respond different depending on how you can play and allow switching different articulation in the fly etc. I’m not sure how many times we need to say that that nobody compares Omnisphere to kontakt in terms of playback scripting. I certainly did not, as you claim compare it to kontakt. I compared it to similar kontakt libraries. Big difference. What you can do with the included samples in comparable kontakt libraries as far less than wha you can do with Omnisphere.

So how can we keep this going around in circles some more?

[pdxindy]

pdxindy - congratulations on being the 1,000th KVR poster to make this factually incorrect statement! Since 2.0 you can import samples, and indeed many 3rd party banks now include their own samples too. What you can't do (without using an ugly ill-fitting fudge) is import multisamples.

I know you can import single samples... The discussion was about multi-sampled libraries... including how cool it is in Omni that you can use the granular engine on multi-samples.

[Cinebient]

Ok so now we are talking about emulating real instrument behavior? Obviously kontakt is better at that. I use it all the time for all kinds of instruments from guitars and bass to brass, winds, orchestras etc.

I am explaining why Kontakt librararies have more value to people. BTW: it has naught, per se, to do with "real instruments", that's just the example that I used and the samples that people think have value.

We can’t seriously talk about this when the goal posts get moved so much. I was talking the value of the sample library and what the user can do to it (and more importantly quickly and easily).

It was you who equivocated the value samples in Omni to Kontakt so no whining about moving the goal posts. The manly thing to do is simply admit that someone else has a point that you didn't see.

Although, it seems that you still don't get it. The value of the sample library depends on what you can do with it. I didn't buy Scarbee Funk guitarist because the samples have value, I bought it because the "instrument" has value. Those very same samples would be worth less in some other instrument, e.g., Omnisphere, if it couldn't emulate the behavior of the instrument.

So, either you want to understand why some person will say "Omnisphere is overpriced but kontakt libraries aren't," or you don't. If you don't, then that's the very definition of willful ignorance on your part.

Mmhhhh, sorry but the most ignorant is if someone think to define the value of anything for other people. It‘s close to stupidy.
Yeah, whatever....runs in circles here until the end of KVR.
Maybe we all should spend more time in using „our“ favorite tools instead of trying to teach other our religion.
Of course it makes no sense to even discuss these things. So good luck...i‘m out

[vurt]

i personally do not use omnisphere (some of my best friends are omnisphere users) but i can certainly see why for some people its useful.
what i don't understand is why people who don't use it, seem so vehemently against it

omnisphere is not on a register! chill the f**k out.

[ghettosynth]

I genuinely thought you meant in terms of manipulating the samples and using it to create interesting tones. This interpretation makes sense because we are talking about a synthesizer here. It seems more clear now that you are talking about having sample based instruments that are scripted to play and respond different depending on how you can play and allow switching different articulation in the fly etc.

You claimed that you didn't understand why people value Kontakt libraries and not Omnisphere. I used an example to explain it to you. Kontakt's ability to work with samples is exceedingly powerful whether we're talking about real instruments or synthetic instruments. That the power isn't directly accessible by the end user but is in the hands of the (kontakt) developer is not relavant.

I’m not sure how many times we need to say that that nobody compares Omnisphere to kontakt in terms of playback scripting.

You don't get to dismiss that in a value comparison, so, implicitly, yes you did. You failed, willfully or not, to understand where the value proposition in Kontakt libraries comes from.

I compared it to similar kontakt libraries. Big difference.

Such as? You're moving the goal posts, you said:

If you compare the Omnisphere library to other sample libraries that include a fair amount of sound design content, Omni comes out much better value. Look at Kontakt products from Sample Logic or 8dio or Spitfire or soundironnor even NI. You will often find that one library can cost from half to almost as much and Omni for far less sample content.

So which NI sample libraries cost half as much as Omni and have far less sample content? Let's be clear about value here, if you buy NI libraries one at a time you're an idiot <-(hyperbole for "not value conscious"). Komplete/Komplete Ultimate is the comparable product and at the half price that it goes on sale for every year. Your statement doesn't hold up. People who are concerned about value, i.e., those asserting that Omni is overpriced aren't comparing retail prices, they are comparing the prices that you can purchase the product for.

I will tell you to your face that every single NI product that is included in Komplete is overpriced it you buy it alone. But Omni never goes on sale for more than ten to twenty percent off so that's what we're talking about.

If you could buy Omni once a year for $100 I would respond to anyone claiming that it's overpriced to wait for the annual sale.

What you can do with the included samples in comparable kontakt libraries as far less than wha you can do with Omnisphere.

What the end user can do is a function of the creativity of the developer, modulo limitations of the instrument, but what the developer can do is a function of the limitations of the tool as a sampler. There is no context in which Omni is a better sampler. People value Kontakt libraries because it is an excellent sampler and developers take advantage of that.

Outside of the points that you made earlier with respect to granular synthesis and the ability to change sound sources, there are only a few other technical advantages of Omni to Kontakt. The primary advantage to the end user wanting to do sound design is usability, but, that usability comes at the price of mediocre synthesis.

My two primary criticisms of Omni have not changed in the five or so years since I considered buying it. 1) The content is vastly overpriced, and 2) the technical abilities of it as a synthesizer are lackluster.

Komplete Ultimate on sale is about $600, that's what I paid for it. It contains:

87 products, over 18,000 sounds, and over 500 GB of instruments and effects

There are at least 20 effects there which have significant value and the best modular platform for synthesis on the market and even after including those products and not talking about the other synths the sample library is still almost ten times the size of Omnisphere.

That's what a good value proposition looks like to someone who says that Omni is overpriced.

[ghettosynth]

i personally do not use omnisphere (some of my best friends are omnisphere users) but i can certainly see why for some people its useful.
what i don't understand is why people who don't use it, seem so vehemently against it

omnisphere is not on a register! chill the f**k out.

Because it represents the worst of what I think is a good value proposition in this market and that's what KVR is all about. It's like saying you don't understand what's so bad about payday loan outlets.

That said, you may be reading more than is there. What you should be asking is why people are so vehemently for bad value propositions? That's the kindling here.

[vurt]

i personally do not use omnisphere (some of my best friends are omnisphere users) but i can certainly see why for some people its useful.
what i don't understand is why people who don't use it, seem so vehemently against it

omnisphere is not on a register! chill the f**k out.

Because it represents the worst of what I think is a good value proposition in this market and that's what KVR is all about. It's like saying you don't understand what's so bad about payday loan outlets.

That said, you may be reading more than is there. What you should be asking is why people are so vehemently for bad value propositions? That's the kindling here.

pay day loans f**k people who need help.
that's exploitation.

if someone offers a product, which can be demoed or easily researched, someone decides to buy it, for what ever reason. i really don't care what other people spend their money on.
so long as no one is being exploited or harmed, it really doesn't matter.

[ghettosynth]

i personally do not use omnisphere (some of my best friends are omnisphere users) but i can certainly see why for some people its useful.
what i don't understand is why people who don't use it, seem so vehemently against it

omnisphere is not on a register! chill the f**k out.

Because it represents the worst of what I think is a good value proposition in this market and that's what KVR is all about. It's like saying you don't understand what's so bad about payday loan outlets.

That said, you may be reading more than is there. What you should be asking is why people are so vehemently for bad value propositions? That's the kindling here.

pay day loans f**k people who need help.
that's exploitation.

if someone offers a product, which can be demoed or easily researched, someone decides to buy it, for what ever reason. i really don't care what other people spend their money on.
so long as no one is being exploited or harmed, it really doesn't matter.

Ok then, it's like a Cadillac Cimmaron.

[vurt]

i do not know what that means.
but now i want some cinnamon and raisin toast
bastard!

[vurt]

oh, we can all agree, the bloke living in the omnisphere box is an idiot.


(unless of course he was taking the piss)[then, well played sir!]

[Echoes in the Attic]

I genuinely thought you meant in terms of manipulating the samples and using it to create interesting tones. This interpretation makes sense because we are talking about a synthesizer here. It seems more clear now that you are talking about having sample based instruments that are scripted to play and respond different depending on how you can play and allow switching different articulation in the fly etc.

You claimed that you didn't understand why people value Kontakt libraries and not Omnisphere. I used an example to explain it to you. Kontakt's ability to work with samples is exceedingly powerful whether we're talking about real instruments or synthetic instruments. That the power isn't directly accessible by the end user but is in the hands of the (kontakt) developer is not relavant.

I’m not sure how many times we need to say that that nobody compares Omnisphere to kontakt in terms of playback scripting.

You don't get to dismiss that in a value comparison, so, implicitly, yes you did. You failed, willfully or not, to understand where the value proposition in Kontakt libraries comes from.

I compared it to similar kontakt libraries. Big difference.

Such as? You're moving the goal posts, you said:

If you compare the Omnisphere library to other sample libraries that include a fair amount of sound design content, Omni comes out much better value. Look at Kontakt products from Sample Logic or 8dio or Spitfire or soundironnor even NI. You will often find that one library can cost from half to almost as much and Omni for far less sample content.

So which NI sample libraries cost half as much as Omni and have far less sample content? Let's be clear about value here, if you buy NI libraries one at a time you're an idiot <-(hyperbole for "not value conscious"). Komplete/Komplete Ultimate is the comparable product and at the half price that it goes on sale for every year. Your statement doesn't hold up. People who are concerned about value, i.e., those asserting that Omni is overpriced aren't comparing retail prices, they are comparing the prices that you can purchase the product for.

I will tell you to your face that every single NI product that is included in Komplete is overpriced it you buy it alone. But Omni never goes on sale for more than ten to twenty percent off so that's what we're talking about.

If you could buy Omni once a year for $100 I would respond to anyone claiming that it's overpriced to wait for the annual sale.

What you can do with the included samples in comparable kontakt libraries as far less than wha you can do with Omnisphere.

What the end user can do is a function of the creativity of the developer, modulo limitations of the instrument, but what the developer can do is a function of the limitations of the tool as a sampler. There is no context in which Omni is a better sampler. People value Kontakt libraries because it is an excellent sampler and developers take advantage of that.

Outside of the points that you made earlier with respect to granular synthesis and the ability to change sound sources, there are only a few other technical advantages of Omni to Kontakt. The primary advantage to the end user wanting to do sound design is usability, but, that usability comes at the price of mediocre synthesis.

My two primary criticisms of Omni have not changed in the five or so years since I considered buying it. 1) The content is vastly overpriced, and 2) the technical abilities of it as a synthesizer are lackluster.

Komplete Ultimate on sale is about $600, that's what I paid for it. It contains:

87 products, over 18,000 sounds, and over 500 GB of instruments and effects

There are at least 20 effects there which have significant value and the best modular platform for synthesis on the market and even after including those products and not talking about the other synths the sample library is still almost ten times the size of Omnisphere.

That's what a good value proposition looks like to someone who says that Omni is overpriced.

Well that answers my question about how we can continue to talk in circles! Again you are comparing Omnisphere to kontakt rather than similar sound design kontakt libraries, which usually don’t allow losing user samples, are often locked to only allow using the scripted interface, or are too much work to edit. Comparing the value of the sound source library in Omnisphere to comparable kontakt libraries was just one easy demonstration of value, but I suspect any examples I give, like sample
Logic libraries or NI Evolve or Kinetic Metal etc, you will just say are a rip off. And that’s fine, but my point was just that the Omni library alone was better value than many other kontakt libraries. That was a single minor point and I’ve never changed the goal posts on that. The claim has always been the same but you keep talking about kontakt as a product in addition to any library for it. But then you’re talking about the cost of kontakt plus some libraries. Again it won’t take much to equal the cost of Omnisphere. However I fully agree the komplete or komplete ultimate are better deals, even at full price!

[wagtunes]

The problem with all of this, and it's starting to give me a headache, is that you can't judge any of these products in a vacuum. Because if all I do is country western music, Omnisphere is going to be the biggest $500 paperweight I ever bought. It will go virtually unused. Same if all I do is classical orchestral music.

But if I'm doing TV or movie soundtrack work, I'm not finding anything this cheap (yes, cheap) that's going to do the job that Omni can do because any other platform, including Kontakt, is going to include buying so many different products to cover the same ground, if even possible, that the total overall cost is going to be 5 times that of Omni.

My orchestral libraries alone ran into thousands of dollars. But if that's what you need, then it's worth it. But if I'm doing EDM, what the hell am I doing spending thousands of dollars on orchestral libraries?

That's why this is a pointless discussion to generically determine if Omnisphere, or anything for that matter, is a good value.

It's only a good value if it gives you what you need to get the job done that you need to do.

All the rest of this crap is just pulling down your pants and getting out the tape measures.