In the generator section we get the 4 x 4 grid for setting up modulation of per-voice parameters. Things on the same line of the grid multiply and the four products are summed.
We can enable/disable the Env modulators via MP. But when using more than one modulator on a line where one or more of them is disabled (this is for Env modulators - haven't tried it LFOs), I don't think things are working correctly. When the slot occupant is disabled, the slot should behave the same as if Off. It seems to behave as if it's still on and multiplying by a constant zero.
This is a bug, right?
Also, if I have Env 1 modulating global volume, it seems I also must put the master envelope in the 4 x 4 grid, set it to 0% and give it the longest possible release. If I don't extend the release on the master envelope and leave it at its very short default, then whatever release I use on gets abruptly cut off when a note is released.
Is this the way this should be approached? When modulated by Env 1 and the master envelope, are the note resources released when the first of release stage of multiple envelopes terminates, whichever envelope that happens in?
Finally, has anybody else modulated volume with an Env and seen the modulation feedback visuals just stop working. I can hear the modulation happening, but the lines that show that modulation visually are sometimes seen and sometimes not seen.
Solved - MSF - Generator Section Envelopes Enablement Problem
-
Chandlerhimself Chandlerhimself https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=318799
- KVRAF
- 1823 posts since 19 Dec, 2013 from Japan
The first part I haven’t tested, so I can’t comment on. The 2nd part Is working correctly I believe. IMO its a bad idea to modulate the master volume. I think a better way would be to use a volume module or something similar to control the volume. The master volume controls everything and if its being modulated the user can’t adjust the volume. The global envelope controls everything in the generator I beleive, so it will be applied on top of any other envelopes, lfos, etc. I was annoyed by this at first because it cuts off reverbs and delays in the generator section, but then I changed my mind. It actually gives you a lot of options and opens up new possibilities. You can have lots of different types of sounds playing at the same time or cut off reverb, delay, etc easily. If you don’t want that just adjust the release ir use fx in the fx section.
I’ll check later and see if the envelopes are disappearing.
I’ll check later and see if the envelopes are disappearing.
My Youtube page https://www.youtube.com/user/GuitarChandler
-
- KVRAF
- 10376 posts since 2 Sep, 2003 from Surrey, UK
Part 1 confirmed (for LFOs, anyway)
If any of the modulators on a row is disabled:
-- the sound is not modulated,
-- the visualization in the Modulation window and the Modulation button works.
If the first modulator on the row is disabled:
-- the sound is not modulated
-- no modulation works.
Also: a Feature suggestion
-- Add a Enable button to each of the used mod. sources in the Modulation window
-- either the Power button or the tinted box (as used on the Global Modulator buttons)
If any of the modulators on a row is disabled:
-- the sound is not modulated,
-- the visualization in the Modulation window and the Modulation button works.
If the first modulator on the row is disabled:
-- the sound is not modulated
-- no modulation works.
Also: a Feature suggestion
-- Add a Enable button to each of the used mod. sources in the Modulation window
-- either the Power button or the tinted box (as used on the Global Modulator buttons)
-
- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 1759 posts since 11 Nov, 2009 from Northern CA
OK, I hear you about not modulating the master volume. It seemed to work, so I didn't think it through any further.Chandlerhimself wrote:The first part I haven’t tested, so I can’t comment on. The 2nd part Is working correctly I believe. IMO its a bad idea to modulate the master volume. I think a better way would be to use a volume module or something similar to control the volume. The master volume controls everything and if its being modulated the user can’t adjust the volume. The global envelope controls everything in the generator I beleive, so it will be applied on top of any other envelopes, lfos, etc. I was annoyed by this at first because it cuts off reverbs and delays in the generator section, but then I changed my mind. It actually gives you a lot of options and opens up new possibilities. You can have lots of different types of sounds playing at the same time or cut off reverb, delay, etc easily. If you don’t want that just adjust the release ir use fx in the fx section.
But the question remains: what does the global envelope modulate? Your explanation seems reasonable. If that's the way it works, then to use a second envelope to control level (and I have a good reason for needing to do this), it suggests that the global envelope (apparently hard-wired and not subject to "disconnection") should have attack of 0, sustain of 0dB and release of maximum to assure that the global envelope doesn't override the secondary one that's really trying to control the level.
But does this also mean that note resources continue to be consumed long after a note is released, although silent courtesy of the additional envelope? Or is MSF smart enough to release a note's resources once it goes silent?
-
- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 1759 posts since 11 Nov, 2009 from Northern CA
Yes, that would be very helpful. +1.DarkStar wrote:Part 1 confirmed (for LFOs, anyway)
Also: a Feature suggestion
-- Add a Enable button to each of the used mod. sources in the Modulation window
-- either the Power button or the tinted box (as used on the Global Modulator buttons)
-
- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 1759 posts since 11 Nov, 2009 from Northern CA
Just a little bump in case Vojtech overlooked this.
I do believe this is a bug and would like to see if a resolution is on the horizon. If it''s not a bug and this is working as intended, could we get a few more rows on the generator modulation grid? If it's not a bug and working as intended, it seems like we could never use disabling of generator envelopers or LFOs unless those modulators were the only thing on a row of the modulation grid.
I do believe this is a bug and would like to see if a resolution is on the horizon. If it''s not a bug and this is working as intended, could we get a few more rows on the generator modulation grid? If it's not a bug and working as intended, it seems like we could never use disabling of generator envelopers or LFOs unless those modulators were the only thing on a row of the modulation grid.
-
MeldaProduction MeldaProduction https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=176122 - KVRAF
- 14339 posts since 15 Mar, 2008 from Czech republic
David, please try to keep single questions, it's quite hard to respond to all of that. So:
1) Multiply with disabled mod - I'll check, but it's likely that however it works now it will work, optimization reasons.
2) Sound ends as soon as global envelope ends.
3) Visualisation - I didn't see any problems. Use the newest version though. If something weird happens, send me the settings please.
1) Multiply with disabled mod - I'll check, but it's likely that however it works now it will work, optimization reasons.
2) Sound ends as soon as global envelope ends.
3) Visualisation - I didn't see any problems. Use the newest version though. If something weird happens, send me the settings please.
-
- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 1759 posts since 11 Nov, 2009 from Northern CA
Problem Solved. Here's how for anybody interested.
The challenge was to use multiple Env modulators to control the amp envelope. I only needed/wanted one Env modulator at a time to be active. Although the Env modulators could be disabled , there did not seem to be a way get more than four into a modulator grid. Once you put a disabled modulator on a row in the grid, that row becomes silent.
Here's what ended up working. For starters, I set up the global envelope to have zero attack, and a custom release that stayed at 100% until end-of-release. It doesn't do any actual modulation but just stays out of the way of whatever Env modulator that does modulate.
I had a single tone generator (in this case a wavetable module, but that's not important). Immediately below that I put two vol-pan modules in parallel, the one in channel 2 stealing input from channel 1, both with vol. set to 0%. The vol. parameter of vol-pan 1 is modulated by a matrix in which Env 1 is in row 1 slot 1, Env 2 in row 2 slot 1, etc. In vol-pan 2 we start with Env 5, etc. The modulator grids are set to 100% depth.
The Env modulators used (seven in all in this case) have exactly one enabled at any one time.
A mixer below the vol-pan modules recombines their output. But the net result is that only the signal going through the enabled Env module is heard. Seems to work as needed.
The challenge was to use multiple Env modulators to control the amp envelope. I only needed/wanted one Env modulator at a time to be active. Although the Env modulators could be disabled , there did not seem to be a way get more than four into a modulator grid. Once you put a disabled modulator on a row in the grid, that row becomes silent.
Here's what ended up working. For starters, I set up the global envelope to have zero attack, and a custom release that stayed at 100% until end-of-release. It doesn't do any actual modulation but just stays out of the way of whatever Env modulator that does modulate.
I had a single tone generator (in this case a wavetable module, but that's not important). Immediately below that I put two vol-pan modules in parallel, the one in channel 2 stealing input from channel 1, both with vol. set to 0%. The vol. parameter of vol-pan 1 is modulated by a matrix in which Env 1 is in row 1 slot 1, Env 2 in row 2 slot 1, etc. In vol-pan 2 we start with Env 5, etc. The modulator grids are set to 100% depth.
The Env modulators used (seven in all in this case) have exactly one enabled at any one time.
A mixer below the vol-pan modules recombines their output. But the net result is that only the signal going through the enabled Env module is heard. Seems to work as needed.