2CAudio Kaleidoscope | It's A Trip | Latest Update 1.1

[Cinebient]

So what formats of tuning can i import now exactly?
Can i only use 64bit wav files?
Or is there a way to import .scl or .tun files as well?
Sorry, after long time with Kaleidoscope i still try to learn it

[Sampleconstruct]

Yes, only 64 Bit wavs at a sampling rate of 2048 kHz (I use WaveLab for this).
All tuning files have to be in .txt-format, but you can simply copy/paste .scl-files and make a new document which has the .txt-ending.

[Sampleconstruct]

Yes, only 64 Bit wavs at a sampling rate of 2048 kHz (I use WaveLab for this).
All tuning files have to be in .txt-format, but you can simply copy/paste .scl-files and make a new document which has the .txt-ending.

More info on .scl-tuning files here:
http://www.huygens-fokker.org/scala/scl_format.html

[Cinebient]

Yes, only 64 Bit wavs at a sampling rate of 2048 kHz (I use WaveLab for this).
All tuning files have to be in .txt-format, but you can simply copy/paste .scl-files and make a new document which has the .txt-ending.

More info on .scl-tuning files here:
http://www.huygens-fokker.org/scala/scl_format.html

Thank´s a lot. I forgot that i own the Scala software since years indeed. Have to revisit it.
I just started first time to use waveforms as tuning inside Kaleidoscope and it really is amazing what tonalities it can create. A bit unstable to switch tuning modes here (Logic often crash) and since the APFS the browser is a nightmare as well and even jumps in unexpected ways trough folders while just using the forward and back arrows.
I think i also have the ArchitectureWaveforms 2010 somewhere on an SSD.
I must say i don´t really understand all the theory behind tuning via a waveform but the results are wonderful (as i just saw in one of your great videos about Kaleidoscope).

[Sampleconstruct]

Yes, only 64 Bit wavs at a sampling rate of 2048 kHz (I use WaveLab for this).
All tuning files have to be in .txt-format, but you can simply copy/paste .scl-files and make a new document which has the .txt-ending.

More info on .scl-tuning files here:
http://www.huygens-fokker.org/scala/scl_format.html

Thank´s a lot. I forgot that i own the Scala software since years indeed. Have to revisit it.
I just started first time to use waveforms as tuning inside Kaleidoscope and it really is amazing what tonalities it can create. A bit unstable to switch tuning modes here (Logic often crash) and since the APFS the browser is a nightmare as well and even jumps in unexpected ways trough folders while just using the forward and back arrows.
I think i also have the ArchitectureWaveforms 2010 somewhere on an SSD.
I must say i don´t really understand all the theory behind tuning via a waveform but the results are wonderful (as i just saw in one of your great videos about Kaleidoscope).

Using wavs as tuning files not always yields foreseeable results, often the results match my expectations when extracting single cycles from a given sample, but sometimes not at all.

[Cinebient]

Mmhhh....no chance to use my .scl files since when i import them all as .txt Kaleidoscope always crash when i try to open the tuning inside the plug-in.
Of course i updated to macOS Mojave and Logic 10.4.2. so it could be the fault.
I hope even if the major update is far away that the unstable nature of Kaleidoscope (and B2) get sorted because it´s an amazing tool for sound design.

[Andrew Souter]

Yes, only 64 Bit wavs at a sampling rate of 2048 kHz (I use WaveLab for this).
All tuning files have to be in .txt-format, but you can simply copy/paste .scl-files and make a new document which has the .txt-ending.

Not exactly 2048 kHz "sample rate". Simply 2048 samples. This should be the length of the file in samples. The same rate is basically irrelevant and can be anything.

[Andrew Souter]

Thank´s a lot. I forgot that i own the Scala software since years indeed. Have to revisit it.
I just started first time to use waveforms as tuning inside Kaleidoscope and it really is amazing what tonalities it can create. A bit unstable to switch tuning modes here (Logic often crash) and since the APFS the browser is a nightmare as well and even jumps in unexpected ways trough folders while just using the forward and back arrows.

Are you using the latest version of KS? Can you redownload and reinstall from the My Downloads in the web store? I thought we fixed the APFS issue in KS at some point? (I still have Yosemite on my Mac Pro, but "dark mode" in Mohave looks like a compelling reason to upgrade soon...)

we are not aware of any general instability in KS either. If you get a crash log please send it to us via email. thanks.

I think i also have the ArchitectureWaveforms 2010 somewhere on an SSD.
I must say i don´t really understand all the theory behind tuning via a waveform but the results are wonderful (as i just saw in one of your great videos about Kaleidoscope).

The "theory" is simply to use the waveform as a pure data format. Don't think of it as an audio file. Think of it a collection of 2048 "relative ratios" between 0% and 100% which can then be fit to any frequency range: 1 cent, 1 semitone, 1 octave, 10 octaves, 20hz to 20,000hz, or whatever you like... so you can effectively create completely arbitrary spectrums. The "geometry" of where each frequency is within the range you specify is defined by the waveform.

it is generally for atonal, non-musical spectrums, that can be great for sound FX and bizarre ambient drone spectrums that can be good for scoring work or musical styles that emulate this kind of thing.

also note, that since there are "only" 512 lines/resonators/voices, we only use 512 samples/datapoint from the 2048sample waveform. We use every 4th sample (to preserve the overall "geometry" of the full waveform.

[Sampleconstruct]

Yes, only 64 Bit wavs at a sampling rate of 2048 kHz (I use WaveLab for this).
All tuning files have to be in .txt-format, but you can simply copy/paste .scl-files and make a new document which has the .txt-ending.

Not exactly 2048 kHz "sample rate". Simply 2048 samples. This should be the length of the file in samples. The same rate is basically irrelevant and can be anything.

Well, but one has to convert any given wav to 2048 kHz in order for KS to read it.

[Andrew Souter]

Well, but one has to convert any given wav to 2048 kHz in order for KS to read it.

Should not be true AFAIK.

This:

https://www.galbanum.com/products/archi ... eforms2010

uses 96K as the "sample rate" for the 64bit format. And these clearly are good in KS (as this is where all the factory waveforms come from, and this is included in the KS Pack).

What are you using to create yours?


(note "sample rate" for the original intended use of these waveforms: i.e. as oscillators in waveform/wavetable synths, is also basically irrelevant. One only cares about how many samples define one period of the waveform. 2048 samples = 1024 amplitudes in the spectral domain + 1024 "imaginary" values that control phase of each partial for one period of a waveform in this case. In wavetable synths, the "sample rate" in some ways can be considered how fast you read through this waveform/wavetable. i.e. if you read values from it twice as fast, you just transposed it up an octave. And as wavetable synths are expected to transpose the waveform 8-10 octaves or so, the "sample rate" header of the file is basically meaningless and we care only about "how many samples = one period". Basically the same rate header should be ignored by any proper wavetable synth engine. This is not entirely relevant to KS, it just felt like a good opportunity to pontificate. It is relevant in the sense that KS also completely ignores the sample rate header of the file. To KS the data is simply a list of double-precision floating point numbers that are interpreted as some relative ratio that is then mapped to a given range and multiplied by a reference frequency to define a tuning set.)

[Cinebient]

I checked and just in case downloaded the latest and greatest but still the browser in Kaleidoscope (and B2) are out of control. But you know....it´s a trip anyway
Importing the 64bit wav waveforms went fine and yeah.....some wonderful dronish landscapes and ambiances to explore.

[XComposer]

I think i also have the ArchitectureWaveforms 2010 somewhere on an SSD.
I must say i don´t really understand all the theory behind tuning via a waveform but the results are wonderful (as i just saw in one of your great videos about Kaleidoscope).

The "theory" is simply to use the waveform as a pure data format. Don't think of it as an audio file. Think of it a collection of 2048 "relative ratios" between 0% and 100% which can then be fit to any frequency range: 1 cent, 1 semitone, 1 octave, 10 octaves, 20hz to 20,000hz, or whatever you like... so you can effectively create completely arbitrary spectrums. The "geometry" of where each frequency is within the range you specify is defined by the waveform.

it is generally for atonal, non-musical spectrums, that can be great for sound FX and bizarre ambient drone spectrums that can be good for scoring work or musical styles that emulate this kind of thing.

also note, that since there are "only" 512 lines/resonators/voices, we only use 512 samples/datapoint from the 2048sample waveform. We use every 4th sample (to preserve the overall "geometry" of the full waveform.

I'm interested in understanding better, too. So, the original timbre of the waveform has nothing to do with the resulting timbre of the tuning, whatever frequency range it is made to fit to, right?
Putting it very simple (too simple, I'm sure), I mean: if I take a single cycle waveform from a clarinet note, and I use it as a tuning in Kaleidoscope, I shall not expect to be able (for instance, when using white noise as sound source) to make sounds that resemble the timbre of a clarinet in any way, whatever frequency range I choose to make it fit to, am I correct? Or there is a way to do it? Please forgive my very naive question…

[Sampleconstruct]

Well, but one has to convert any given wav to 2048 kHz in order for KS to read it.

Should not be true AFAIK.

This:

https://www.galbanum.com/products/archi ... eforms2010

uses 96K as the "sample rate" for the 64bit format. And these clearly are good in KS (as this is where all the factory waveforms come from, and this is included in the KS Pack).

What are you using to create yours?


(note "sample rate" for the original intended use of these waveforms: i.e. as oscillators in waveform/wavetable synths, is also basically irrelevant. One only cares about how many samples define one period of the waveform. 2048 samples = 1024 amplitudes in the spectral domain + 1024 "imaginary" values that control phase of each partial for one period of a waveform in this case. In wavetable synths, the "sample rate" in some ways can be considered how fast you read through this waveform/wavetable. i.e. if you read values from it twice as fast, you just transposed it up an octave. And as wavetable synths are expected to transpose the waveform 8-10 octaves or so, the "sample rate" header of the file is basically meaningless and we care only about "how many samples = one period". Basically the same rate header should be ignored by any proper wavetable synth engine. This is not entirely relevant to KS, it just felt like a good opportunity to pontificate. It is relevant in the sense that KS also completely ignores the sample rate header of the file. To KS the data is simply a list of double-precision floating point numbers that are interpreted as some relative ratio that is then mapped to a given range and multiplied by a reference frequency to define a tuning set.)

Years ago when I started out with KS I tried all different formats, but the only one KS would read is 2048 kHhz which I achieve by converting the SCs in WaveLab to 2048/64 Bit.

[sqigls]

Unfortunately I can't use Kaleidoscope in Cubase 6.5.5, crashes every time Cubase scans it.
2CAudio Kaleidoscope 1.1b, OSX10.9.5... x64

Works in Live 9.7... anyone know of any workarounds? Tried the usual a few times, just crashes, doesn't want a bar of it.
Breeze2, B2, Aether all load fine...

Can email 2CAudio the crash logs if you want them?

[Sampleconstruct]

I think i also have the ArchitectureWaveforms 2010 somewhere on an SSD.
I must say i don´t really understand all the theory behind tuning via a waveform but the results are wonderful (as i just saw in one of your great videos about Kaleidoscope).

The "theory" is simply to use the waveform as a pure data format. Don't think of it as an audio file. Think of it a collection of 2048 "relative ratios" between 0% and 100% which can then be fit to any frequency range: 1 cent, 1 semitone, 1 octave, 10 octaves, 20hz to 20,000hz, or whatever you like... so you can effectively create completely arbitrary spectrums. The "geometry" of where each frequency is within the range you specify is defined by the waveform.

it is generally for atonal, non-musical spectrums, that can be great for sound FX and bizarre ambient drone spectrums that can be good for scoring work or musical styles that emulate this kind of thing.

also note, that since there are "only" 512 lines/resonators/voices, we only use 512 samples/datapoint from the 2048sample waveform. We use every 4th sample (to preserve the overall "geometry" of the full waveform.

I'm interested in understanding better, too. So, the original timbre of the waveform has nothing to do with the resulting timbre of the tuning, whatever frequency range it is made to fit to, right?
Putting it very simple (too simple, I'm sure), I mean: if I take a single cycle waveform from a clarinet note, and I use it as a tuning in Kaleidoscope, I shall not expect to be able (for instance, when using white noise as sound source) to make sounds that resemble the timbre of a clarinet in any way, whatever frequency range I choose to make it fit to, am I correct? Or there is a way to do it? Please forgive my very naive question…

No it will sound nothing like a clarinet. If you produce very basic single cycles with only a few harmonics, the resulting tunings will somewhat match.