MSoundFactory Wishlist

[Chandlerhimself]

Guys, is it me or I've read somewhere that MSoundFactory will do re-synthesis?

I think that is a feature people want, but so far it’s no in MSF. Of course you can import wavetables and re-synthasize thigs that way, but that’s not what I think of when thinking of re-synthesis. Hopefully it will have spectral abilities like alchemy, harmor and iris in the future.

[Neon Breath]

Guys, is it me or I've read somewhere that MSoundFactory will do re-synthesis?

I think that is a feature people want, but so far it’s no in MSF. Of course you can import wavetables and re-synthasize thigs that way, but that’s not what I think of when thinking of re-synthesis. Hopefully it will have spectral abilities like alchemy, harmor and iris in the future.

Yep that's what I meant and had in mind too, spectral re-synthesis Harmor & Alchemy style, but with Melda's magic of course.

[MacGyver]

What will this beast of synth cost approximately? I am planning to buy a new flagship synth soon, but not one which will cost an arm and a leg

[jmg8]

How are you guys using the modal filter?
The concept is new to me. I understand what it does.
But what is it typically used for?
Can anyone share some common uses for it?

Thanks

[pone]

How are you guys using the modal filter?
The concept is new to me. I understand what it does.
But what is it typically used for?
Can anyone share some common uses for it?

Thanks

Making inharmonic partials. (wiki that) and possibly making good sounding melda filters

[MacGyver]

and making good sounding melda filters

Well, if the MSoundFactory filters are like the MPowerSynth filters, I totally agree here, since MPowerSynth lacks of OOTB good / musical sounding filters, like the standard battery of a today's workstation synth, which is similar to:

- Moog style filter
- Korg analog style filter
- Korg digital style filter
- Early digital era filter
- Sophisticated analog filter like Oberheim OBXD
- Acid 303 filter
- More distortion types, pre-/post-filter

This is missing in my opinion, we only have one normal filter type / character.

Vojtech could rearrange the filter popup, too, like first choosing the filter type (after adding several), then choosing the steepness, and then the LP/HP/BP thing, or vice versa so the others will refresh. It would safe a lot of space and stop fooling you that there were many options currently.

[werzel]

MacGyver,
Could you provide detailed examples of those filters? Or at least the features that you like/ make them unique in your eyes? With the analogue ones, how much is dependent on the waveforms that they are used on? Do you prefer them in their 'set' state or when modulated? If you prefer the modulated settings, what parameters are modulated and by what?

I'm asking to understand your perspective and possibly see how do-able they are within Melda's standard set of filters. I view it as a bit of a challenge. (Honestly - as one hell of a challenge due to my limited abilities, but it's fun to try!)

[pone]

This is an opinion, I have never looked at anyone's filter code:
Melda filters lack harmonics* caused by the filter's resonance peak interacting with distortion and feedback and self oscillation (filter drive in melda filters is just pre-distortion).

*The filter modes with harmonics (except the harmonics mode itself) won't emulate analogue hardware filters (don't aim to, they are for wobble bases as the help says) and are in general uncomfortable for general use (the parameter range seems to be designed for modern filtering frequency responses, i.e for wobble bases).

You can emulate the harmonics using another filter in harmonics mode before the lp but it's messy (very as you need to do more than just sync a few parameters). Then put some kind of distortion after (will also work with very high resonance to simulate self oscillation).
It's reasonable to assume no one will bother and instead just call the filters bad and move on (which is exactly the case with MPowersynth). The filters are incredibly clean, do the standard lp/hp/bp sound good? no.

As for feedback there is no feedback module in MSoundFactory at the moment.

Personally I would much rather prefer a entirely different filter module called EQ-filter that would allow you to visually build a filter like an eq, setting up feedback and distortion, harmonic placement and the response curves of the above as the frequency and resonance get's automated.
For those wondering, setting this up in mxxx with mdynamic eq kind of works, but the artefacts it causes make it not worthwhile when you can just use another synth.

[Chandlerhimself]

The filter can and do generate harmonics. Drive is pre-filter distortion and saturation is post. Using both together can give you a lot of different sounds. Turn the resonance up on a lowpass filter and increase the drive you can hear the tone changing and different harmonics being emphasized.

I know some analog filters have some special properties. The resonance on the moog filter decreases was the frequency gets lower, I believe. Those things can be interesting, but IMO the Melda filters sound good and I don't really hear anything particularly different in other synths. If anyone has any examples of what a better filter can do please post an example. Maybe its just me, but I don't hear big differences between the melda filters and the other synths I have with modeled filters. The only difference I can think of is that they sound smoother when they sweep, but AFAIK that's because of the resonance decreasing, which can be done in MSF or MPS.

To be honest I'd like new filters if they do something new and interesting, but I'm just wondering what is wrong with them. The EQ-filter idea does sound cool though. I wouldn't mind being able to build my own filter.

Also I should mention the modal filter isn't related to the other filters, its used for physical modeling synthesis. I'll try to post about it later.

[Gone soft]

Seems like there would be demand for a MTurboFilter module (and a correspending plugin offcourse) with some good presets emulating various classic hardware, hopefully with enough going on to emulate the Oberheim Xpander (among other variations allpass and lp in "one" filter etc) but with extra range for the resonance and then some.

[MacGyver]

MacGyver,
Could you provide detailed examples of those filters? Or at least the features that you like/ make them unique in your eyes? With the analogue ones, how much is dependent on the waveforms that they are used on? Do you prefer them in their 'set' state or when modulated? If you prefer the modulated settings, what parameters are modulated and by what?

I'm asking to understand your perspective and possibly see how do-able they are within Melda's standard set of filters. I view it as a bit of a challenge. (Honestly - as one hell of a challenge due to my limited abilities, but it's fun to try!)

Here are some examples of filters in other known VSTis, which I would describe as musical and having some "character" / coloration:
https://files.fm/u/2jcqrgwu

The mps filter in comparison seems to be to me very neutral or kind of boring, not caring for extreme volume changes with lot of resonance and then not so good sounding in 12db mode.

[Chandlerhimself]

jmg8 - Here are examples of modal synthesis (what the modal filter is used for).



Its generally used for bell sounds, basses, pitched percussion(xylophones, marimbas, etc) and strings. You can use almost anything as an exciter, but I find it works best with non-pitched material. I'm trying to find a good general exciter now. White noise isn't dense enough and sine sweeps aren't really giving me what I want either. I'll have to keep experimenting more, but I have found you can combine multiple modal filters and resonators to come up with cool sounds. Make sure you have the limter on though.

[pone]

I've been thinking a bit and realised that the biggest feature I want is actually
Multithreading support
I know Vojtech's stance on multithreading, but I think now with each key possibly being very complex, multithreading should be reconsidered.

[pone]

Personally, I don't like filter sounds at all unless they are some new and creative ones, so maybe I'm not the most qualified person to comment,
But I did look at the examples provided and what's in melda. To me it seems like the "lack of smoothness" comes from the resonance peak just being too narrow. As the peak pases through a partial you can hear it come in and out on each partial causing audible stepping.

Testing out this theory

Code: Select all

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[Whywhy]

I have try to make some custom filters in Msf here an example,
Plus I add some resonators and modal examples, a digital piano patch and a kind of guitar patch I have made yesterday.

https://clyp.it/eplc0a2h


Cheers
Nico.