Hi,
I'm not talking about the basic white or pink noise available.
I'm looking for this powerful (but not thin) noise that TR-808 snares generate.
I know that DSI Tempest have different type of white noise for vintage drum machines sounds.
For now none of the 3rd party recreations of snares in Zebra 2 aren't even that close (exept for the OSC attack)
If anyone know how to fake a true analog white noise in Zebra it would be well appreciated.
Please note that I started to fiddle around with the Scrambler and the Brillance FX in OSC fx. And I think that Im getting somewhere... But not the real deal yet.
Anyone?
Can Zebra 2 generate true Analog White Noise (for drum machines recreation)
-
- KVRAF
- 4197 posts since 23 May, 2004 from Bad Vilbel, Germany
It might be best if you would post examples of the hits you want to emulate.
-
- KVRist
- 369 posts since 13 Jun, 2006 from Cornwall, UK
Hi mayberry!
There's a (possibly) huge back story (and a lot of folklore) about the supposedly unique noise generator used in Roland's TR-808:
"As legend recalls, when developing the circuitry of the 808 Roland founder, Ikutaro Kakehashi, intentionally bought faulty transistors, hereby giving the machine its signature sizzling sound. Kakehashi claimed that these transistors were one of the key reasons for halting production of the TR-808: the faulty transistors could not be reproduced nor ordered again, and regular, fully operational ones would just not provide the same ‘sizzle’."
This quote is from: https://enmoreaudio.com/the-myths-secre ... y-it-does/
Have a read here for lots more details about the transistor selection:
Part 1: http://secretlifeofsynthesizers.com/the ... nd-tr-808/
"The transistors pictured in this article are some of the small batch of transistors that were rejected as “out of specification” by the manufacturer and purchased by Roland. The little patch of paint that you can see on the top of each transistor marks them as being very special and very, very rare indeed. The paint mark was applied at the Roland factory in the late 1970’s to identify these transistors as having a unique characteristic to be used as the noise source for Roland’s new drum machine, the TR-808 Rhythm Composer."
Part 2: http://secretlifeofsynthesizers.com/rol ... or-update/
"It was surprising how different the noise level and quality was between different brands of the same transistor which makes testing and comparison more complicated than it would have been when the TR-808 was in production, there are many more manufacturers and brands now. Some 2SC828’s that we listened to sounded loud and harsh, others were reasonably close to the sound of the “defective” transistor so if you are building a clone it’s worth trying some different brands to see which sounds the best."
However, I have yet to spot any actual audio recordings of this famed noise in isolation, so we can use it in virtual recreations.
Anyone care to stick a probe in their TR-808 and record some of its continuous noise directly without all the bridged-T network ringing?
Martin
There's a (possibly) huge back story (and a lot of folklore) about the supposedly unique noise generator used in Roland's TR-808:
"As legend recalls, when developing the circuitry of the 808 Roland founder, Ikutaro Kakehashi, intentionally bought faulty transistors, hereby giving the machine its signature sizzling sound. Kakehashi claimed that these transistors were one of the key reasons for halting production of the TR-808: the faulty transistors could not be reproduced nor ordered again, and regular, fully operational ones would just not provide the same ‘sizzle’."
This quote is from: https://enmoreaudio.com/the-myths-secre ... y-it-does/
Have a read here for lots more details about the transistor selection:
Part 1: http://secretlifeofsynthesizers.com/the ... nd-tr-808/
"The transistors pictured in this article are some of the small batch of transistors that were rejected as “out of specification” by the manufacturer and purchased by Roland. The little patch of paint that you can see on the top of each transistor marks them as being very special and very, very rare indeed. The paint mark was applied at the Roland factory in the late 1970’s to identify these transistors as having a unique characteristic to be used as the noise source for Roland’s new drum machine, the TR-808 Rhythm Composer."
Part 2: http://secretlifeofsynthesizers.com/rol ... or-update/
"It was surprising how different the noise level and quality was between different brands of the same transistor which makes testing and comparison more complicated than it would have been when the TR-808 was in production, there are many more manufacturers and brands now. Some 2SC828’s that we listened to sounded loud and harsh, others were reasonably close to the sound of the “defective” transistor so if you are building a clone it’s worth trying some different brands to see which sounds the best."
However, I have yet to spot any actual audio recordings of this famed noise in isolation, so we can use it in virtual recreations.
Anyone care to stick a probe in their TR-808 and record some of its continuous noise directly without all the bridged-T network ringing?
Martin
-
- KVRer
- Topic Starter
- 16 posts since 23 Oct, 2017
Hey thanks Martin, I really appreciate you taking the time to answer in detail! Great info here.
The reason why Im so obsessed about this, is because Im realizing now that Zebra is such a monster at creating drums sounds (I've actually learned a lot through studying Bigtone Minimal BD presets, so much talent this guy...)
Anyway how cool would it be to have the possibility to get Brown, red, green noise or an actual REAL analog type noise.
I understand that "defective" transistors where the key for TR-808 sounds. But here is the video in which the user is using the 808-type analog white noise to create his Snare drum. This is pretty accurate in my opinion:
Please someone let me know if there is a convincing work around for this?
The reason why Im so obsessed about this, is because Im realizing now that Zebra is such a monster at creating drums sounds (I've actually learned a lot through studying Bigtone Minimal BD presets, so much talent this guy...)
Anyway how cool would it be to have the possibility to get Brown, red, green noise or an actual REAL analog type noise.
I understand that "defective" transistors where the key for TR-808 sounds. But here is the video in which the user is using the 808-type analog white noise to create his Snare drum. This is pretty accurate in my opinion:
Please someone let me know if there is a convincing work around for this?
-
- KVRer
- Topic Starter
- 16 posts since 23 Oct, 2017
Also just found a "Noise Only" version of a real 808 SD in one of Goldbaby's pack:
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
-
- KVRAF
- 6458 posts since 8 Jun, 2009
Unless there's some hardware source of entropy the noise generator can harness, a software synth is only ever going to provide pseudorandom noise or samples of "real" noise (which will repeat, naturally). Whether this makes a solid difference or not is up to you.
I'd be amazed if anyone can really tell the difference between the two of real and pseudorandom once other differences have been taken care of (filters, feedback in circuits, etc etc). However, some people do have the ability to tell dither patterns apart, so maybe it's possible. Sampling you might just because of repeats.
I'd be amazed if anyone can really tell the difference between the two of real and pseudorandom once other differences have been taken care of (filters, feedback in circuits, etc etc). However, some people do have the ability to tell dither patterns apart, so maybe it's possible. Sampling you might just because of repeats.
-
- KVRer
- Topic Starter
- 16 posts since 23 Oct, 2017
I understand, and I've read somewhere else that unless there is audio input in zebra, there is no way to make it happen.
I guess Im interested about the convincing work-arounds that so many talented sound designers come up with to recreate sounds with such unexpected realism...
I guess Im interested about the convincing work-arounds that so many talented sound designers come up with to recreate sounds with such unexpected realism...
-
- KVRAF
- 4197 posts since 23 May, 2004 from Bad Vilbel, Germany
-
- KVRian
- 544 posts since 1 Jan, 2013 from Saint-Petersburg, Russia
I don't know... This discussion looks a bit on the spiritual side of things to me. Sorry. I think all you need is just a right amount of eq and an extra punch to the attack portion of the sound. I tried to match the spectrum of the noise in your example with different tone shapers in Zebra and here's the result:
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
-
- KVRer
- Topic Starter
- 16 posts since 23 Oct, 2017
AND my friend, you just did it. Wow that was quick. Amazing, thanks dude.drzhnn wrote: Thu Oct 11, 2018 4:07 pm I don't know... This discussion looks a bit on the spiritual side of things to me. Sorry. I think all you need is just a right amount of eq and an extra punch to the attack portion of the sound. I tried to match the spectrum of the noise in your example with different tone shapers in Zebra and here's the result:
-
- KVRian
- 544 posts since 1 Jan, 2013 from Saint-Petersburg, Russia
You're welcome 
You can also try to modulate the level of Return 1 with MSEG, to get more control over the shape of the noise layer.
You can also try to modulate the level of Return 1 with MSEG, to get more control over the shape of the noise layer.-
- KVRian
- 1018 posts since 27 Mar, 2013
Chapeau drzhnn I was also making a 808 sd but you was faster ... Awesome sound. Zebra² is still best synth on earth ... And no I'm not exaggerating at all
rabbit in a hole
-
- KVRer
- Topic Starter
- 16 posts since 23 Oct, 2017
Sounds good Drzhnn I will definitely try that! Yes Autobot, Zebra2 is definitely the best out there. I just wish there was more in depth tutorials for Zebra drums sound-design out there. My goal is to recreate drums sounds from Urban contemporary music (so mainly 808s lol!) In order then to custom-make better sounds and eventually open a door for a departure from 808 sounds. Something more creative...
Thanks everyone for the good help!
Thanks everyone for the good help!