2CAudio Breeze 2.1 | P-Link | Sub-Zero Suspend-On-Slience | Chameleon Color

VST, AU, etc. plug-in Virtual Effects discussion
Beatworld
KVRist
437 posts since 31 Dec, 2010 from Perth

Post Thu Oct 11, 2018 3:05 pm

Andrew Souter wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 11:10 am
depends on if you use P-Link or not. In the normal mode (P-Link OFF), there should be no change at all to signal levels compared to 2.0. All existing presets and host projects to load this way.

if you enable P-Link, Mix is no longer literal 1:1 wet/dry. It is set in a manner appropriate to work together with Precedence to emulate distance/depth.

you can lock P-Link on/off also.
Julien Unison wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 11:03 am
When I say "low" I mean REALLY low like 10% or something compared to the dry signal :o :neutral:
well, shouldn't be that extreme. It should really be a barely noticeable change in most cases when P-Link is on, and no change at all when it's off.
If you don’t have Precedence installed does having the P-Link on result in any change?

Put another way, is it pointless turning P-Link on unless you have Precedence installed?

I’ve received the Introduction to Precedence and Breeze 2.1 email, I’m still trying to get my head around all the information.

Cheers

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Andrew Souter
KVRAF
2381 posts since 12 Sep, 2008

Re: 2CAudio Breeze 2.1 | P-Link | Sub-Zero Suspend-On-Slience | Chameleon Color

Post Thu Oct 11, 2018 5:57 pm

Beatworld wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 3:05 pm
If you don’t have Precedence installed does having the P-Link on result in any change?
Yes.
Beatworld wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 3:05 pm
Put another way, is it pointless turning P-Link on unless you have Precedence installed?
No.

It depends on how you like to work and what style of music you are working on. P-Link is designed to help using many instances of Precedence and Breeze to position instruments properly in a virtual space.

Precedence provides 100% of the Left-Right positioning and about half of the distance positioning. Breeze (or B2 or Aether) supplies the other half.

Distance perception in enclosed spaces is very dependent on the "Direct to Reflected Energy Ratio" (i.e. Mix in standard music production terms) and also the "Initial Time Gap" (i.e. Pre-Delay in standard music production terms). Everyone knows intuitively "more verb means father away" to some extent", but there is wide misunderstanding about how to use Pre-Delay properly in a manner that agrees with other distance cues.

If you load Precedence and then Breeze on a track and set Precedence Distance and Breeze Mix to the same value the distance illusion will be completed perfectly. If you do this for 16 tracks in parallel and each has a different position in Precedence, you will have 16 instruments properly positioned with a unified space.

Without Precedence, using P-Link will still help establish some distance cues and keep them agreeing with one another. It can be nice to work that way even without Precedence. It still gives *some* of the proper perceptual cues. Rather like simple Gain Panning gives *some* perceptual cues about Left-Right position. It works to some degree, but it can be much better when ALL perceptual cues agree with one another.

Breeze defines a space. Precedence can put the source sound anywhere you like within this space.

Beatworld
KVRist
437 posts since 31 Dec, 2010 from Perth

Re: 2CAudio Breeze 2.1 | P-Link | Sub-Zero Suspend-On-Slience | Chameleon Color

Post Thu Oct 11, 2018 7:08 pm

Andrew Souter wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 5:57 pm
Beatworld wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 3:05 pm
If you don’t have Precedence installed does having the P-Link on result in any change?
Yes.
Beatworld wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 3:05 pm
Put another way, is it pointless turning P-Link on unless you have Precedence installed?
No.

It depends on how you like to work and what style of music you are working on. P-Link is designed to help using many instances of Precedence and Breeze to position instruments properly in a virtual space.

Precedence provides 100% of the Left-Right positioning and about half of the distance positioning. Breeze (or B2 or Aether) supplies the other half.

Distance perception in enclosed spaces is very dependent on the "Direct to Reflected Energy Ratio" (i.e. Mix in standard music production terms) and also the "Initial Time Gap" (i.e. Pre-Delay in standard music production terms). Everyone knows intuitively "more verb means father away" to some extent", but there is wide misunderstanding about how to use Pre-Delay properly in a manner that agrees with other distance cues.

If you load Precedence and then Breeze on a track and set Precedence Distance and Breeze Mix to the same value the distance illusion will be completed perfectly. If you do this for 16 tracks in parallel and each has a different position in Precedence, you will have 16 instruments properly positioned with a unified space.

Without Precedence, using P-Link will still help establish some distance cues and keep them agreeing with one another. It can be nice to work that way even without Precedence. It still gives *some* of the proper perceptual cues. Rather like simple Gain Panning gives *some* perceptual cues about Left-Right position. It works to some degree, but it can be much better when ALL perceptual cues agree with one another.

Breeze defines a space. Precedence can put the source sound anywhere you like within this space.
Thanks for that helpful explanation Andrew.
The Overview of Uses & Applications on your web page suggests (to me) that while Precedence is capable of many amazing things, perhaps its biggest feature is the precise positioning of instruments in large ensembles, such as orchestras.

Think I better get used to Breeze 2.1 first.
Good luck.

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XComposer
KVRist
200 posts since 18 Aug, 2006 from Italy

Re: 2CAudio Breeze 2.1 | P-Link | Sub-Zero Suspend-On-Slience | Chameleon Color

Post Fri Oct 12, 2018 3:22 am

Thank you for the update!
Two questions about Precedence (which I don't have – yet): I understand that Precedence is to be used while keeping the ordinary Pan at zero, otherwise all is messed up, right?
And is it possible with Precedence coupled with Breeze 2.1 to move the sound sources in the space while they are playing sounds (with the automation, for example), or will it cause crackling and sizzle noises as with many other softwares? And, if this is possible, will the motion be even or perceived in many discrete steps?
www.GKweb.it
Mac, OS X 10.11, Logic Pro X

jbraner
KVRian
798 posts since 8 Jan, 2003

Re: 2CAudio Breeze 2.1 | P-Link | Sub-Zero Suspend-On-Slience | Chameleon Color

Post Fri Oct 12, 2018 3:31 am

Check here
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=512778&start=45
around pp3-4. It seems that there are crackles when yo utry to move the position (for now anyway)

User avatar
XComposer
KVRist
200 posts since 18 Aug, 2006 from Italy

Re: 2CAudio Breeze 2.1 | P-Link | Sub-Zero Suspend-On-Slience | Chameleon Color

Post Fri Oct 12, 2018 3:37 am

jbraner wrote:
Fri Oct 12, 2018 3:31 am
Check here
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=512778&start=45
around pp3-4. It seems that there are crackles when yo utry to move the position (for now anyway)
Thank you, I see it now.
www.GKweb.it
Mac, OS X 10.11, Logic Pro X

User avatar
Andrew Souter
KVRAF
2381 posts since 12 Sep, 2008

Re: 2CAudio Breeze 2.1 | P-Link | Sub-Zero Suspend-On-Slience | Chameleon Color

Post Fri Oct 12, 2018 11:12 pm

Yes, answered in the Precedence thread...

meanwhile, check out these beauties:

Image
Image
Image
Image
Image


https://www.2caudio.com/sitecontent/pro ... Orange.png
https://www.2caudio.com/sitecontent/pro ... Banana.png
https://www.2caudio.com/sitecontent/pro ... rForce.png
https://www.2caudio.com/sitecontent/pro ... wlands.png
https://www.2caudio.com/sitecontent/pro ... tember.png

I curious to know what everyone thinks of the new color options... there are over 150 options pre-made and you can make an infinite variety yourself as well...

Svama
KVRian
698 posts since 23 Sep, 2008 from Germany

Re: 2CAudio Breeze 2.1 | P-Link | Sub-Zero Suspend-On-Slience | Chameleon Color

Post Sat Oct 13, 2018 12:01 am

Why does every parameter change stops the plugin to play. Changes aren’t possible in real-time. I don’t understand why, every reverb does this in real-time.

Calagan
KVRer
2 posts since 13 Oct, 2018

Re: 2CAudio Breeze 2.1 | P-Link | Sub-Zero Suspend-On-Slience | Chameleon Color

Post Sat Oct 13, 2018 12:19 am

Hi there

I just upgraded from 2.0 to 2.1. Didn't have time to test deeply, but it should sound the same (except for the new features).
However, I have few questions/requests :
- Could you upload a new version of the pdf manual. It took me some time to understand the use of the small green dots at the left of width and cross (at the end, I understood they were the phase inversion and channel swap buttons). And in my humble opinion, the manual could be rewritten in a simpler manner... It's a bit messy for me.
- I love the sound of your reverb, but I'm not very fond of the GUI (since the beginning). The new colors don't bring nothing better to me... But anyway, the sound is GREAT and this is what matters at the end.
- Checking the role of the phase inversion button, I started to make some tests, and soon realize that 2 instances of Breeze in parallel with the exact same settings and 100% wet don't null (at all) when one is phase inverted (with the Live utility plugin). I'm just curious : do you have some kind of random modulation in it ? Why this behavior ? It's not a problem for me. I'm just curious...

Anyway, great reverb ! It compliments well my other plugins (Valhalla Room, Eventide SP2016, Soundtoys Little Plate). In terms of sound it's my favorite, but ergonomy is for me the weak point (maybe because it's not classical and I still don't get it intuitively : I still rely much more on presets with Breeze than with VRoom for exemple).
The worst point : I would love a simpler management of the early/late reflections and positioning (like in VRoom and SP2016), but maybe the new p-link will solve this...
But anyway : GREAT SOUND !

User avatar
XComposer
KVRist
200 posts since 18 Aug, 2006 from Italy

Re: 2CAudio Breeze 2.1 | P-Link | Sub-Zero Suspend-On-Slience | Chameleon Color

Post Sat Oct 13, 2018 12:41 am

Andrew Souter wrote:
Fri Oct 12, 2018 11:12 pm
Yes, answered in the Precedence thread...
Seen, thank you.
Your new color schemes are very beautiful!
www.GKweb.it
Mac, OS X 10.11, Logic Pro X

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aMUSEd
KVRAF
29640 posts since 14 Sep, 2002 from In teh net

Re: 2CAudio Breeze 2.1 | P-Link | Sub-Zero Suspend-On-Slience | Chameleon Color

Post Sat Oct 13, 2018 12:43 am

Calagan wrote:
Sat Oct 13, 2018 12:19 am
but I'm not very fond of the GUI (since the beginning).
I think they have a very Art Deco look about them (in a good way) - especially the meters.

jbraner
KVRian
798 posts since 8 Jan, 2003

Re: 2CAudio Breeze 2.1 | P-Link | Sub-Zero Suspend-On-Slience | Chameleon Color

Post Sat Oct 13, 2018 1:37 am

I curious to know what everyone thinks of the new color options... there are over 150 options pre-made and you can make an infinite variety yourself as well...
I still like the original colours the best ;)
Although, the top one (orange) is nice too (borrows the orange from Aether)...

User avatar
Andrew Souter
KVRAF
2381 posts since 12 Sep, 2008

Re: 2CAudio Breeze 2.1 | P-Link | Sub-Zero Suspend-On-Slience | Chameleon Color

Post Sat Oct 13, 2018 1:49 am

Svama wrote:
Sat Oct 13, 2018 12:01 am
Why does every parameter change stops the plugin to play. Changes aren’t possible in real-time. I don’t understand why, every reverb does this in real-time.
By "stops', you mean small click, etc? You don't mean host playback stops, correct?

Max369
KVRist
62 posts since 9 Aug, 2017

Re: 2CAudio Breeze 2.1 | P-Link | Sub-Zero Suspend-On-Slience | Chameleon Color

Post Sat Oct 13, 2018 2:17 am

Calagan wrote:
Sat Oct 13, 2018 12:19 am
The worst point : I would love a simpler management of the early/late reflections and positioning (like in VRoom and SP2016), but maybe the new p-link will solve this...
But anyway : GREAT SOUND !
I also wondered how can I use only early reflections if needed?

@Andrew Souter
Great GUI colors! Especially first and second images! :tu:

User avatar
Andrew Souter
KVRAF
2381 posts since 12 Sep, 2008

Re: 2CAudio Breeze 2.1 | P-Link | Sub-Zero Suspend-On-Slience | Chameleon Color

Post Sat Oct 13, 2018 2:40 am

Calagan wrote:
Sat Oct 13, 2018 12:19 am
- Could you upload a new version of the pdf manual.
Yes, shortly, but may not be for a week or two. New features are explained in the release notes:

https://www.2caudio.com/sitecontent/pro ... _Notes.txt
Calagan wrote:
Sat Oct 13, 2018 12:19 am
- I love the sound of your reverb, but I'm not very fond of the GUI (since the beginning). The new colors don't bring nothing better to me...
What style of GUI do you like out of curiosity?
Calagan wrote:
Sat Oct 13, 2018 12:19 am
But anyway, the sound is GREAT and this is what matters at the end.
Thanks! Indeed it is.
Calagan wrote:
Sat Oct 13, 2018 12:19 am
- Checking the role of the phase inversion button, I started to make some tests, and soon realize that 2 instances of Breeze in parallel with the exact same settings and 100% wet don't null (at all) when one is phase inverted (with the Live utility plugin). I'm just curious : do you have some kind of random modulation in it ? Why this behavior ? It's not a problem for me. I'm just curious...
That is correct. No two instances will ever null. This is by design. Why? It's classified. :D
Calagan wrote:
Sat Oct 13, 2018 12:19 am
Anyway, great reverb ! It compliments well my other plugins (Valhalla Room, Eventide SP2016, Soundtoys Little Plate). In terms of sound it's my favorite, but ergonomy is for me the weak point (maybe because it's not classical and I still don't get it intuitively : I still rely much more on presets with Breeze than with VRoom for exemple).
The worst point : I would love a simpler management of the early/late reflections and positioning (like in VRoom and SP2016), but maybe the new p-link will solve this...
But anyway : GREAT SOUND !
Aether has a full dedicated ER engine and full control over Mix between ER and LR. B2 has two engines and can be used in the ER-LR modality.

Breeze 2 can be used in Balance mode, where the direct signal will be spatialized, giving something like ERs, but more transparent. In this case Balance acts to control this balance between early energy and tail.''

We do tend to think independently, it's true. :D

By "positioning" I assume you mean just ER-LR balance? If you mean positioning in a more rigorous manner, see our new Precedence product. That does true positioning.

Glad you like the sound. :tu:

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