TAL Mod
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- KVRer
- 27 posts since 29 Apr, 2017 from Europe
Great to see that TAL has released another promising synth. I suppose this is a NoiseMaker's bigger brother? I like how it sounds but there are some things that I can't quite get a grasp of.
For example, what is the purpse of those ADR shape knobs in ADSR envelopes? In the manual, it is stated that "They turn the envelope curve from concave to convex or the opposite. Turn the shape knobs to the middle for linear ADSR’s."
As far as I can tell, they only let you make ADR sliders' function shorter/longer? If that's their only purpose, then I can't see any advantage of having them. In fact, I'm not fond of TAL-Mod sliders: they are too narrow, too fast and need to be moved quite a bit to make a change to the sound. For example, if I want to create a simple, long evolving pad, the Attack slider turned all the way up is still too fast. I have to reach for Attack shape knob and turn it almost all the way to the right. Why would I need to adjust two knobs instead of one Attack slider, like on any other synths? Am I missing something here?
Also, if I was to map all ADSR envelopes to my MIDI controller, I would normally need 12 knobs for three ADSR envelopes. But now, I would need 9 more knobs on my controller for ADR knobs.
And another thing. I'm not sure if this is a bug or not, but my laptop's display resolution is 1366x768 and this is as far as I can resize the GUI in Reaper: https://i.imgur.com/nvmELMj.jpg
I would like to make it just a bit bigger, but I can't resize it any further than that. TAL-Sampler, on the other hand, can be resized (if I want to) so much that it is actually too big for convenient use: https://i.imgur.com/Ti5u3pA.jpg
For example, what is the purpse of those ADR shape knobs in ADSR envelopes? In the manual, it is stated that "They turn the envelope curve from concave to convex or the opposite. Turn the shape knobs to the middle for linear ADSR’s."
As far as I can tell, they only let you make ADR sliders' function shorter/longer? If that's their only purpose, then I can't see any advantage of having them. In fact, I'm not fond of TAL-Mod sliders: they are too narrow, too fast and need to be moved quite a bit to make a change to the sound. For example, if I want to create a simple, long evolving pad, the Attack slider turned all the way up is still too fast. I have to reach for Attack shape knob and turn it almost all the way to the right. Why would I need to adjust two knobs instead of one Attack slider, like on any other synths? Am I missing something here?
Also, if I was to map all ADSR envelopes to my MIDI controller, I would normally need 12 knobs for three ADSR envelopes. But now, I would need 9 more knobs on my controller for ADR knobs.
And another thing. I'm not sure if this is a bug or not, but my laptop's display resolution is 1366x768 and this is as far as I can resize the GUI in Reaper: https://i.imgur.com/nvmELMj.jpg
I would like to make it just a bit bigger, but I can't resize it any further than that. TAL-Sampler, on the other hand, can be resized (if I want to) so much that it is actually too big for convenient use: https://i.imgur.com/Ti5u3pA.jpg
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- KVRAF
- 2292 posts since 11 Jan, 2009 from Portland, OR, USA
I agree with you Sidom, in his attempt to make the envelopes flexible, he's actually just made them more frustrating to use. The values are extreme, as you've pointed out, the end resulting being entering 2 envelopes (one via the sliders, the other via the knobs) to create what you normally would do with just one.
- KVRAF
- 9569 posts since 16 Dec, 2002
They change the shape of the envelope stages
Amazon: why not use an alternative
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- KVRAF
- 1565 posts since 1 Aug, 2006 from Italy
TAL Mod is the only plugin by Togu Audio Line which I don't own (yet)...
Anyway, I like when I can control the A-D-R stages' shape. I like to think to the linear behaviour as if the A-D-R stages move at constant speed; then, by changing the shape, I can slow down or accelerate each stage (while keeping the same total time as before). For example, it's very effective on filters (make a "pluck" sound with a very short attack and play with the shape: you'll see the importance of this control over the envelope)...
On some synths you can recursively modulate the adsr to get similar results (it's a tecnique I learned years ago, I don't remember in which manual, and I still use it).
Anyway, I like when I can control the A-D-R stages' shape. I like to think to the linear behaviour as if the A-D-R stages move at constant speed; then, by changing the shape, I can slow down or accelerate each stage (while keeping the same total time as before). For example, it's very effective on filters (make a "pluck" sound with a very short attack and play with the shape: you'll see the importance of this control over the envelope)...
On some synths you can recursively modulate the adsr to get similar results (it's a tecnique I learned years ago, I don't remember in which manual, and I still use it).
- KVRist
- 38 posts since 15 Nov, 2016
Try to edit the configuration file and set the value for scale manually, for example:Sidom wrote: ↑Tue Oct 16, 2018 9:08 pm And another thing. I'm not sure if this is a bug or not, but my laptop's display resolution is 1366x768 and this is as far as I can resize the GUI in Reaper: https://i.imgur.com/nvmELMj.jpg
I would like to make it just a bit bigger, but I can't resize it any further than that.
<VALUE name="scale" val="0.81"/>
File location on Windows: %appdata%\ToguAudioLine\TAL-Mod.xml
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gentleclockdivider gentleclockdivider https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=203660
- KVRAF
- 6074 posts since 22 Mar, 2009 from gent
Some softsynths only have a linear attack phase , talmod gives us 3 possible options for every envelope stage , which imho is a good thing .mholloway wrote: ↑Tue Oct 16, 2018 10:36 pm I agree with you Sidom, in his attempt to make the envelopes flexible, he's actually just made them more frustrating to use. The values are extreme, as you've pointed out, the end resulting being entering 2 envelopes (one via the sliders, the other via the knobs) to create what you normally would do with just one.
The envelope knobs crossfade between exponential (fully left ) , linear (middle pos.) and log. ( fully right ) .
So yes , the decay anwill be shorter when the knob is turned fully left , this has the same effect as multiplying 2 envelopes , hence exponential >
But there is more to it , patrick said that the envelopes are modelled on the behaviour of diodes .
All that being said , I do think the envelope sliders need an overhaul , the resolution just seems a bit off , sometimes it's verry difficult to find that sweet spot .
Also when you move a slider say from 0.32--->0.33 ( display read out ), there are values in between that are not shown but do have an effect , just hold down CTRL for fine tuning .
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gentleclockdivider gentleclockdivider https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=203660
- KVRAF
- 6074 posts since 22 Mar, 2009 from gent
Ah yeah another major annoyance >
While the modulation envelope is able to do triplets by just dividing the overal length of the window by 3
Since the envelope poinst are freely adjustable and not snapped to a grid , we can divide it by any number we like ..it's a bit hit and miss but doable
But this is not the case when the mod.envelope is set to step mode , since the window is divided by 2 , and multiples of 2 ..and snaps to these subdidvisions , trippletse are not possible ins step mode
While the modulation envelope is able to do triplets by just dividing the overal length of the window by 3
Since the envelope poinst are freely adjustable and not snapped to a grid , we can divide it by any number we like ..it's a bit hit and miss but doable
But this is not the case when the mod.envelope is set to step mode , since the window is divided by 2 , and multiples of 2 ..and snaps to these subdidvisions , trippletse are not possible ins step mode
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- KVRer
- 27 posts since 29 Apr, 2017 from Europe
Tried it, and it didn't work. The scale value won't change any higher than "0.71<...>" no matter what. Guess I will have to send Patrick an email.
Ok, I see now. Maybe those ADR knobs are not that bad after all. I guess, if I want to control envelopes only with sliders, without needing to touch the shape knobs, I could adjust all ADR knobs on all three ADSR envelopes to my liking and then just save the values as default.gentleclockdivider wrote: ↑Wed Oct 17, 2018 9:36 am Some softsynths only have a linear attack phase , talmod gives us 3 possible options for every envelope stage , which imho is a good thing .
The envelope knobs crossfade between exponential (fully left ) , linear (middle pos.) and log. ( fully right ) .
So yes , the decay anwill be shorter when the knob is turned fully left , this has the same effect as multiplying 2 envelopes , hence exponential >
I agree.gentleclockdivider wrote: ↑Wed Oct 17, 2018 9:36 am All that being said , I do think the envelope sliders need an overhaul , the resolution just seems a bit off , sometimes it's verry difficult to find that sweet spot .
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gentleclockdivider gentleclockdivider https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=203660
- KVRAF
- 6074 posts since 22 Mar, 2009 from gent
Latest version 1.3.2
Osc 3 has a new place on the gui , awfully mis alignment/placement
I already contacted patrick , it's just a matter of swapping osc3 with value read out box
This looks verrry unprofessional
How it should be
Osc 3 has a new place on the gui , awfully mis alignment/placement
I already contacted patrick , it's just a matter of swapping osc3 with value read out box
This looks verrry unprofessional
How it should be
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Soul calibrating ..frequencies
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- KVRAF
- 2394 posts since 28 Sep, 2012
Can we adjust the gui ourselves?
- KVRAF
- 11093 posts since 16 Mar, 2003 from Porto - Portugal
I don't think so. But I also support this changing proposition.
Fernando (FMR)
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gentleclockdivider gentleclockdivider https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=203660
- KVRAF
- 6074 posts since 22 Mar, 2009 from gent
You can change the colour of the background/text /sliders ..and that's it
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fluffy_little_something fluffy_little_something https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=281847
- Banned
- 12880 posts since 5 Jun, 2012
In that case the cables would hang all over the display...gentleclockdivider wrote: ↑Fri Nov 23, 2018 6:30 pm Latest version 1.3.2
Osc 3 has a new place on the gui , awfully mis alignment/placement
I already contacted patrick , it's just a matter of swapping osc3 with value read out box
This looks verrry unprofessional
How it should be
Plus, osc 3 seems to be more limited than oscillators 1 and 2, so setting it slightly apart is ok in my view.
The more central location of the display is better now as the eyes don't have to wander that much.
Last edited by fluffy_little_something on Fri Nov 23, 2018 7:11 pm, edited 3 times in total.