Are Todays Daw's Making People Lazy Producers ?

[EnochLight]

rock is far from dead.
its just evolved to something a little different.
sigur ros and muse as well as radiohead have both had big hits here in the uk.
but, when i was a young metal fan, having hits was anathema to us. it was the death knell for metal bands.
look at metallica, awesome, then one gets in to the charts.
they follow that with the black album :ffs: then it just got worse...

my point, if you want to talk about rock being dead, the problem is you are looking in the wrong place.
look in to post-rock. a scene which is huge, while a lot of it is clichés there is some great stuff if you search

Nope. It's actually dead. Sorry. Rock music is rock music.

Reference the Top 40 charts for the past 5-10 years (UK and US). The top 10 tracks at any given time are populated by hip-hop, R&B, and electronic based acts. Even currently, 3 out of the 10 top selling acts in the UK all have 4-on-the-floor electronic drums for their percussion beds. 2 out of those 10 are hip hop. The rest are electronic based. This has been the trend for years. It's the same in the US.

Couple this with sales figures from every major music instrument retailer in the US (Guitar Center, Sweetwater, and Sam Ash), and guitar sales are down in a massive way and have been for years. The big sellers are now synths, samplers, keyboards, software, plugins, etc.

Times have changed, is all.

[donkey tugger]

rock is far from dead.
its just evolved to something a little different.
sigur ros and muse as well as radiohead have both had big hits here in the uk.
but, when i was a young metal fan, having hits was anathema to us. it was the death knell for metal bands.
look at metallica, awesome, then one gets in to the charts.
they follow that with the black album :ffs: then it just got worse...

my point, if you want to talk about rock being dead, the problem is you are looking in the wrong place.
look in to post-rock. a scene which is huge, while a lot of it is clichés there is some great stuff if you search

Nope. It's actually dead. Sorry. Rock music is rock music.

Reference the Top 40 charts for the past 5-10 years (UK and US). The top 10 tracks at any given time are populated by hip-hop, R&B, and electronic based acts. Even currently, 3 out of the 10 top selling acts in the UK all have 4-on-the-floor electronic drums for their percussion beds. 2 out of those 10 are hip hop. The rest are electronic based. This has been the trend for years. It's the same in the US.

Couple this with sales figures from every major music instrument retailer in the US (Guitar Center, Sweetwater, and Sam Ash), and guitar sales are down in a massive way and have been for years. The big sellers are now synths, samplers, keyboards, software, plugins, etc.

Times have changed, is all.

As ever, the picture is a bit more nuanced;

http://top-guitars.co.uk/death-of-the-electric-guitar/

But don't let that stand in the way of your invective.

[jancivil]

LOL

Ok I'm looking at what charted in 1972 and 1973. I don't remember records which were really rockers charting very frequently.
But here's one list, the Billboard Year-end Hot 100 Singles of 1972 (the year I turned 16):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billboard ... es_of_1972

At most you could say 4 of them were by rock acts. I couldn't call Todd Rundgren's I Saw the Light a rock record. It charted in easy listening FFS.
Yes Roundabout is in this list. I suppose it's a rock record.
I would call Argent Hold Your Head up a rock record.
Is Neil Young a rock act? Heart of Gold is not a rock record.

By my definition and count we have 2% rock records in the list if I'm giving some leeway.

I remember these times quite well. This is the heyday of what we call Classic Rock, isn't it. Well, if your criteria is the Top Ten, rock records never ruled like you may think. I'll give you 4 out of this 100 as Classic Rock.

[woggle]

rock is far from dead.
its just evolved to something a little different.
sigur ros and muse as well as radiohead have both had big hits here in the uk.
but, when i was a young metal fan, having hits was anathema to us. it was the death knell for metal bands.
look at metallica, awesome, then one gets in to the charts.
they follow that with the black album :ffs: then it just got worse...

my point, if you want to talk about rock being dead, the problem is you are looking in the wrong place.
look in to post-rock. a scene which is huge, while a lot of it is clichés there is some great stuff if you search

Nope. It's actually dead. Sorry. Rock music is rock music.

Reference the Top 40 charts for the past 5-10 years (UK and US). The top 10 tracks at any given time are populated by hip-hop, R&B, and electronic based acts. Even currently, 3 out of the 10 top selling acts in the UK all have 4-on-the-floor electronic drums for their percussion beds. 2 out of those 10 are hip hop. The rest are electronic based. This has been the trend for years. It's the same in the US.

Couple this with sales figures from every major music instrument retailer in the US (Guitar Center, Sweetwater, and Sam Ash), and guitar sales are down in a massive way and have been for years. The big sellers are now synths, samplers, keyboards, software, plugins, etc.

Times have changed, is all.

As ever, the picture is a bit more nuanced;

http://top-guitars.co.uk/death-of-the-electric-guitar/

But don't let that stand in the way of your invective.

Reading that article makes me wish there were other countries besides the USA, countries where guitars could be manufactured and sold by small manufacturing concerns or even large ones, perhaps ones that make more guitars than Fender and Gibson. Sadly that isn't the case.

[EnochLight]

Nope. It's actually dead. Sorry. Rock music is rock music.

Reference the Top 40 charts for the past 5-10 years (UK and US). The top 10 tracks at any given time are populated by hip-hop, R&B, and electronic based acts. Even currently, 3 out of the 10 top selling acts in the UK all have 4-on-the-floor electronic drums for their percussion beds. 2 out of those 10 are hip hop. The rest are electronic based. This has been the trend for years. It's the same in the US.

Couple this with sales figures from every major music instrument retailer in the US (Guitar Center, Sweetwater, and Sam Ash), and guitar sales are down in a massive way and have been for years. The big sellers are now synths, samplers, keyboards, software, plugins, etc.

Times have changed, is all.

As ever, the picture is a bit more nuanced;

http://top-guitars.co.uk/death-of-the-electric-guitar/

But don't let that stand in the way of your invective.

If you feel my statement is invective, it would appear as though your feelings are hurt. Don't blame the messenger - I'm just telling it like it is. Again, reference the Top 10 songs of the past 10 years in the US and UK.

I'll wait...

[donkey tugger]

Nope. It's actually dead. Sorry. Rock music is rock music.

Reference the Top 40 charts for the past 5-10 years (UK and US). The top 10 tracks at any given time are populated by hip-hop, R&B, and electronic based acts. Even currently, 3 out of the 10 top selling acts in the UK all have 4-on-the-floor electronic drums for their percussion beds. 2 out of those 10 are hip hop. The rest are electronic based. This has been the trend for years. It's the same in the US.

Couple this with sales figures from every major music instrument retailer in the US (Guitar Center, Sweetwater, and Sam Ash), and guitar sales are down in a massive way and have been for years. The big sellers are now synths, samplers, keyboards, software, plugins, etc.

Times have changed, is all.

As ever, the picture is a bit more nuanced;

http://top-guitars.co.uk/death-of-the-electric-guitar/

But don't let that stand in the way of your invective.

If you feel my statement is invective, it would appear as though your feelings are hurt. Don't blame the messenger - I'm just telling it like it is. Again, reference the Top 10 songs of the past 10 years in the US and UK.

I'll wait...

Nah, why would my feelings be hurt? 'Rock music is dead' is a bit, well, emphatic and, err, invective, when the picture is not so clear.

To paraphrase Uncle Bob, the times they do be a changin' (doesn't really work that..). As someone old enough to remember the great sinthesiser pop explosion of the early 80s, I do seem to recall the same dire predictions of the death of the guitar, and ruminations on the evils of 'rockism' back then. It was bollocks then, and it's bollocks now. Along came The Smiths, The Stone Roses, Oasis, Nirvana, The Killers et al (to name but a few..). These things come and go. A bit of perspective eh?

[AnX]

the master....

[Synthman2000]

No, you decide that yourself, no one else nor any given product.

[Muied Lumens]

You calling me lazy?

I can't even be bothered to reply to that...


But seriously, technology has unlocked lots of great potential for me. Being lazy or not has nothing to do with it. Some times I have to work hard for a result, some times not.

The real challenge lies in heading outside of that comfort zone, learning new stuff and keep on expressing myself better. If I can do that in less time with less work, I will.

[EnochLight]

Nah, why would my feelings be hurt? 'Rock music is dead' is a bit, well, emphatic and, err, invective, when the picture is not so clear.

But the picture is clear if you pay attention to what people have been listening to for the past decade. Again, please refer to both the UK and US top 10. This is NOT rock music as it always been traditionally known (4-5 piece band, mostly guitars, 1 drummer). Hip hop is NOT rock music. Electronic is NOT rock music.

To paraphrase Uncle Bob, the times they do be a changin' (doesn't really work that..). As someone old enough to remember the great sinthesiser pop explosion of the early 80s, I do seem to recall the same dire predictions of the death of the guitar, and ruminations on the evils of 'rockism' back then. It was bollocks then, and it's bollocks now. Along came The Smiths, The Stone Roses, Oasis, Nirvana, The Killers et al (to name but a few..). These things come and go. A bit of perspective eh?

First of all - shout out to The Smiths and The Stone Roses. Both had profound affects on me in my youth.

And yes - the times have changed. But I think you’re attempting to redefine what rock music is. Let’s use this as an example:

Most consider Depeche Mode a synth pop band. Well, that might have been true for their run in the 80’s, but then “Songs of Faith & Devotion” came out - and “I Feel You” would be considered a rock song by most who listen to it.

“Just Can’t Get Enough” and “I Feel You” are not the same sort of music. That’s all I’m saying. Well, I’m saying that and rock music is dead.

[jancivil]

You know what is dead in the realm of commercial music is musicality, and craft in songwriting. Everything has to follow something already established. Melody is vapid (and for a lot of this dross that's being generous). The use of copy/paste, one bar drum loops is killing musicality. Congratulations. All of those arguments perfectly suit the mindless conformity of the 'music'.

[jancivil]

Nope. It's actually dead. Sorry. Rock music is rock music.

Reference the Top 40 charts for the past 5-10 years (UK and US). The top 10 tracks at any given time are populated by hip-hop, R&B, and electronic based acts. Even currently, 3 out of the 10 top selling acts in the UK all have 4-on-the-floor electronic drums for their percussion beds. 2 out of those 10 are hip hop. The rest are electronic based. This has been the trend for years. It's the same in the US.

Couple this with sales figures from every major music instrument retailer in the US (Guitar Center, Sweetwater, and Sam Ash), and guitar sales are down in a massive way and have been for years. The big sellers are now synths, samplers, keyboards, software, plugins, etc.

Times have changed, is all.

As ever, the picture is a bit more nuanced;

http://top-guitars.co.uk/death-of-the-electric-guitar/

But don't let that stand in the way of your invective.

If you feel my statement is invective, it would appear as though your feelings are hurt. Don't blame the messenger - I'm just telling it like it is. Again, reference the Top 10 songs of the past 10 years in the US and UK.

I'll wait...

Nah, why would my feelings be hurt? 'Rock music is dead' is a bit, well, emphatic and, err, invective, when the picture is not so clear.

To paraphrase Uncle Bob, the times they do be a changin' (doesn't really work that..). As someone old enough to remember the great sinthesiser pop explosion of the early 80s, I do seem to recall the same dire predictions of the death of the guitar, and ruminations on the evils of 'rockism' back then. It was bollocks then, and it's bollocks now. Along came The Smiths, The Stone Roses, Oasis, Nirvana, The Killers et al (to name but a few..). These things come and go. A bit of perspective eh?

It IS invective though. All of that energy put into this, has led into a failure, again, of the reasoning engine.

As for myself, I'm not invested in what's popular. Everybody in the world can decide to do whatever and basically feck off as far as my interests in music are concerned. You look like you're straining for 'this will hurt your feelings'.

[vurt]

Nah, why would my feelings be hurt? 'Rock music is dead' is a bit, well, emphatic and, err, invective, when the picture is not so clear.

But the picture is clear if you pay attention to what people have been listening to for the past decade. Again, please refer to both the UK and US top 10. This is NOT rock music as it always been traditionally known (4-5 piece band, mostly guitars, 1 drummer). Hip hop is NOT rock music. Electronic is NOT rock music.

To paraphrase Uncle Bob, the times they do be a changin' (doesn't really work that..). As someone old enough to remember the great sinthesiser pop explosion of the early 80s, I do seem to recall the same dire predictions of the death of the guitar, and ruminations on the evils of 'rockism' back then. It was bollocks then, and it's bollocks now. Along came The Smiths, The Stone Roses, Oasis, Nirvana, The Killers et al (to name but a few..). These things come and go. A bit of perspective eh?

First of all - shout out to The Smiths and The Stone Roses. Both had profound affects on me in my youth.

And yes - the times have changed. But I think you’re attempting to redefine what rock music is. Let’s use this as an example:

Most consider Depeche Mode a synth pop band. Well, that might have been true for their run in the 80’s, but then “Songs of Faith & Devotion” came out - and “I Feel You” would be considered a rock song by most who listen to it.

“Just Can’t Get Enough” and “I Feel You” are not the same sort of music. That’s all I’m saying. Well, I’m saying that and rock music is dead.

no one said hip hop or electronic are rock.

but all those rock bands doing rock music are.
therefore rock is not dead.

again you seem obsessed by the top 10. why?

[jancivil]

[ghost town]

Okay, okay now it's official...