Fathom Synth Development Thread

[Tj Shredder]

+1 for cross fades. Will the sampler load audio as stereo or mono? Because if the file is mono, there's no issue with zero points. But when working with stereo, it's kinda rare occasion that both left and right channel would have a zero point at the same point So there'd be a tiny snap anyways from left or right channel. Unless you make that snap independet per channel..

If there is a phase align per stereo channel and the sample would be capable of having different loop lengths for each channel, that would create really interesting stereo imaging which will break up that common looping effect. It would be totally unique I think. At least I don't know of any stereo sampler which would allow that...

You mean that for example right channel loop would be 1,36 seconds long and left channel loop would be 1,40 seconds long (because of the snap points).. That left channel would play 0,04 seconds faster so the loop would be seamless?

Or do you mean that they'd play at the same speed and that other channel just would play more and more behind until retriggered?

Left and right channel would have different durations of the loop, if the difference between the lengths is irrational, they would never repeat exactly. I envision in this case cross faded loops anyway. both channels are seamless...
It would be more like two different bells ringing both in their own repetition...

[Tj Shredder]

el-bo, Yes, MPE is planned, but I have not yet decided when. It's been a tough feature to plan for since I really want to do it, but the user base would be less than 10% and features like a Sampler would double the market. But I will really try to work that in.

The user base which hopped on Fathom though it does not support MPE might be 10%, but as MPE isn't yet around as expected standard feature for a synth and there are only a limited MPE capable synths out there, you can be sure that 100% of all LinnStrument users and, even better, 80% of all Seaboard users would buy it immediately...
Most of them have already some sort of sampler, but not necessarily a MPE capable one. The only competition you face is Falcon, which is in a different price range. A MPE capable Fathom sampler would blow it away...

[el-bo (formerly ebow)]

el-bo, Yes, MPE is planned, but I have not yet decided when. It's been a tough feature to plan for since I really want to do it, but the user base would be less than 10% and features like a Sampler would double the market. But I will really try to work that in.

The user base which hopped on Fathom though it does not support MPE might be 10%, but as MPE isn't yet around as expected standard feature for a synth and there are only a limited MPE capable synths out there, you can be sure that 100% of all LinnStrument users and, even better, 80% of all Seaboard users would buy it immediately...
Most of them have already some sort of sampler, but not necessarily a MPE capable one. The only competition you face is Falcon, which is in a different price range. A MPE capable Fathom sampler would blow it away...

Good points! This might be the perfect time to get ahead in an ever-expanding part of the market

[FathomSynth]

Hmmm, Maybe I should consider MPE sooner than later. I'll look into it again shortly.

In regards of zero crossing loop points. There are a few different strategies that can be used and this could easily be a setting under the user's control. Obviously for mono samples it's not an issue, only for stereo.

The first is a simple fade in on both channels without using my zero point strategy at all.

The next method is to zero snap both left and right channels and then slide them both toward each other in the time domain so that the points align. This would alter the stereo sample slightly but realistically it would be almost impossible to detect.

Another strategy would be to detect where the left and right channel cross each other, then chose that point and fade it toward zero over a set number of samples. This would preserve the exact relationship between the left and right channels.

Another thing would be what Fathom already does for trigger free detuned oscillators. You start the first channel at it's zero point and the other channel plays at zero volume until it also cross zero.

[574X]

They identify musical phrases and map them to the keyboard, obeying note-offs.

I should clarify that this is for the modern ITB workflow where people just click in notes on a midi editor, and I think some roland sp styles.

A ton of specifically sample-based music was and is made with the MPC workflow, where people get in the grove by banging out the beat on pads. That's also the most common use I've seen for the pads on all types of midi controllers.

- Meaning usually a pad hit triggers the whole sample, and they're in a choke group, silencing each other.

In that situation, control over choke groups is needed, and is assigned manually on some original MPCs, but Live can auto-assign choke groups.

[574X]

Hmmm, Maybe I should consider MPE sooner than later. I'll look into it again shortly.

In regards of zero crossing loop points. There are a few different strategies that can be used and this could easily be a setting under the user's control. Obviously for mono samples it's not an issue, only for stereo.

The first is a simple fade in on both channels without using my zero point strategy at all.

The next method is to zero snap both left and right channels and then slide them both toward each other in the time domain so that the points align. This would alter the stereo sample slightly but realistically it would be almost impossible to detect.

Another strategy would be to detect where the left and right channel cross each other, then chose that point and fade it toward zero over a set number of samples. This would preserve the exact relationship between the left and right channels.

Another thing would be what Fathom already does for trigger free detuned oscillators. You start the first channel at it's zero point and the other channel plays at zero volume until it also cross zero.

Minimizing artifacts is pretty important, in the sense that a lot of samples sound almost irreparably harsh and we don't necessarily want to do anymore damage.

That being said, a lot of people will intentionally sample at rate of 11025 Hz, the lofi roland sp standard... aaand resample at lofi rates repeatedly...

Micro fading vs finding the zero on one channel and fading the other vs momentary instant phase alignment, as you mention, will be almost impossible to detect either way (unless it's creating artifacts).
- but, since phase alignment appears to be built in, direct control over that and the stereo image could be of tremendous help.

[Vertion]

FarhomSynth, I might suggest small steps are more releases for a faster development cycle. For example,I know MusicDevelopment keeps a regular beta going which some download in parallel with the latedt stable, and report bugs on it. Smaller steps, faster releases produces a more efficient development cycle, and keeps users far more invested, spreading word of mouth faster. It also keeps their understanding of the process intact and expectations more realistic. Deadmau5 showed the power of keeping the market invested by personality, via a less impersonal interaction, as you do here.

[FathomSynth]

Hey, sorry for late reply, I’m busy adding a Fractal Reverb FX unit in 2.23.

Version, Yes, you are right on target. Faster releases tend to generate much more excitement. I try to keep the incremental delivery concept going every two weeks or so. Of course sometimes I can’t resist the temptation to add more features to a release (such as this release). But your advice is relevant to a software principle I always have in my mind even if sometimes I’m not very good at following it as closely as I should.

574X, You’re probably right that fading sample edges alone is good enough for most ears. And I think this is what most hosts and samplers do.

But Fathom already has “per sample high definition” handling already built in to the processor so we might as well use it for the sampler. I personally love the crispness of modulations when the attach starts exactly when the waveform starts from zero. The difference can be heard especially on plucked presets and sharp stabs. So I’m going to try to keep that precision for the sampler as well.

That being said, users may sometimes want to turn that off and use the more standard edge fading suggestion, so I will for sure be making this a setting under your control for the sampler.

[SparkySpark]

Fractal reverb?! Just like that? We're so spoiled.

[SparkySpark]

Note that short release cycles begs for patch updates, rather than downloading and installing 150 MB zip files. Thus, I think the update system would need to be revised before this is possibly done.

Apart from that I am all for it. As said above it can generate more interest and it also feels like opening a Kinderegg or so every time the software is started.

[FathomSynth]

The new Fractal Reverb unit will be coming out in 2.23 shortly.

There will also be a new Solidtrax sound bank comprised of 100% movie score stingers.

Here is a comparison of the Fractal Reverb.

The first audio file is a raw stab with no reverb. The next is the same stab with standard reverb, followed by the same stab with fractal reverb. All reverb time parameters are the same between the two with the difference being the algorithm.

https://static.kvraudio.com/files/3302/stab.mp3
https://static.kvraudio.com/files/3302/reverb.mp3
https://static.kvraudio.com/files/3302/fractal3.mp3

fractal reverb.jpg

[aMUSEd]

Sounds like an FX version of Fathom would be a good idea

[SparkySpark]

Sounds like an FX version of Fathom would be a good idea

Fathom Xpanded?

[SparkySpark]

The new Fractal Reverb unit will be coming out in 2.23 shortly.

There will also be a new Solidtrax sound bank comprised of 100% movie score stingers.

Here is a comparison of the Fractal Reverb.

The first audio file is a raw stab with no reverb. The next is the same stab with standard reverb, followed by the same stab with fractal reverb. All reverb time parameters are the same between the two with the difference being the algorithm.

https://static.kvraudio.com/files/3302/stab.mp3
https://static.kvraudio.com/files/3302/reverb.mp3
https://static.kvraudio.com/files/3302/fractal3.mp3


fractal reverb.jpg

Wow this is really great news! Judging from the examples, the new reverb has much more bite and spaciess (a la Zynaptic) at the same time. Very much a musical addition. Plus it looks great with that GUI theme.

[DJErmac]

The new Fractal Reverb unit will be coming out in 2.23 shortly.

Do you know about Fractal Audio Fas-FX Reverb ?
https://www.fractalaudio.com/fas-fx-reverb/
This is the reverb plugin I use the most btw...