Compound Meters in MDrummer?

[sramsay]

I was a bit shocked today to discover that MDrummer is a bit limited in what it can handle in terms of time signatures. From the manual:

"Note that signatures other than x/4 are not supported, but it doesn't matter, because for example 6/8 is simply 3/4 and you can do the same thing with more or less any signature."

Well no, actually. You can't do that with "more or less any signature." How would I do it with 7/8? Since it's a compound meter, I suppose I can break it up into alternating bars of triples and duples (4/4 then 3/4), but I can't do 6/8, 6/8, 9/8. And actually, I really don't understand why I can't just enter 7/8 and be done.

I guess I'm a bit at a loss as to why a drum machine -- particularly one as feature-rich as MDrummer -- actually has trouble dealing with complex meters.

Or is there some obvious workaround that I'm missing?

[goldglob]

Hi sramsay,
the workaround is to use 7/4 and set speed change in Rhythm Editor/Settings to 200%. Then say you have 7/8 in your DAW, a 7/4 pattern in MD plays as 7/8 in DAW. And if you're editing the pattern in the loop editor you have to think of the seven divisions as 1/8 notes rather than 1/4 notes. Quite do-able but I know what you mean.

[sramsay]

Ah! Thanks. I started playing around with 7/4 and was trying to figure out why that wouldn't work. I can't think of a reason, to be honest . . .

[MeldaProduction]

Exactly! It doesn't matter if you count quarters or eight notes basically. Just halve/double the tempo or something. What you cannot do is things like 7/5 signatures , but to be honest I never heard anything in such signature, and probably hope I wont . Though technically even that could probably be converted to some x/4 signature with very high x and odd number of bars

[sramsay]

I mean, this isn't quite right. First, 7/5 is basically an impossible meter, as far as I know. And it's not really the case that all time signatures can be expressed in terms of quarter notes by "speeding them up." The reason you have the denominator as 8 instead of four, is because you want to spread out the downbeats differently. To be able to get "anything" in 7/8 to work as sped up 7/4, I think you'd need to be alternating bars or something.

There's a reason for these time signatures, and it's not just notational convenience.

[MeldaProduction]

I don't know about 7/5, I was just thinking if you can write it, it must be possible, right? I think it would essentially mean that each bar would be cut into 5 "something like quarter notes" , but then you'd actually fit 7 of them in there, which quite doesn't make sense ...

Anyways 7/8 in 120bpm is the same thing as 7/4 in 60bpm (or is it 240? damn it's too late... I shouldn't answer anything when it's nearly midnight )

[sramsay]

Anyways 7/8 in 120bpm is the same thing as 7/4 in 60bpm

Wait, what? So if I write a piece in 4/4 at 120bpm, you would say that if I ran that same piece at 60bpm, the time signature has changed? Since when?

[goldglob]

I don't know about 7/5, I was just thinking if you can write it, it must be possible, right? I think it would essentially mean that each bar would be cut into 5 "something like quarter notes" , but then you'd actually fit 7 of them in there, which quite doesn't make sense ...

Perhaps in another galaxy where the beings have 5 arms they have a whole note divided into 1/5 notes (like our quintuplets) then to get our half note they write a duplet..etc.

[goldglob]

Anyways 7/8 in 120bpm is the same thing as 7/4 in 60bpm

Wait, what? So if I write a piece in 4/4 at 120bpm, you would say that if I ran that same piece at 60bpm, the time signature has changed? Since when?

Looks like Vojtech has hit the sack so I wouldn't mind continuing this out of interest.
I think what he means is just that 7/8 in DAW will sound the same as 7/4 at double speed in MD (he did mean 240 not 60).
I agree that having x/8 options would be more straightforward, but let's say there was indeed the option to choose 7/8 rather than 7/4 ... you'd still see exactly the same thing in the loop editor grid, and it wouldn't change what you do there. And the mathematics would amount to the same thing as doubling the speed.
Regarding grouping (4+3 or 3+4 etc), you define this by how you arrange the notes...E.G. in RHYTHM GENERATOR ...dial up a 7/4 grid, write in an essential beat that has the feel of the grouping you want...GENERATE ALL...the whole generated rhythm will keep that same feel.
So, all do-able, just have to remember the double speed thing.

[m3roadworx]

Doubling the speed is a hack. If we want 11/16 do we have to quadruple the speed then? I agree it is a surprising limitation considering how advanced MDrummer is. Reaper can do it no problem. It is certainly a feature I am missing.