Twangström Public Beta (Update: rev 8131)

[pdxindy]

it’s about people wanting options. As much as I disagree about there not being enough grit, this is not “exactly” right for everyone and it’s important to let people have an opinion without someone jumping to u-he’s defense and twisting their comments and yes... spinning. Grit or saturation is just that and it is very important to many of us.

A beta period is exactly the place and time to voice criticisms. If it were perfect, there would be no beta and no bug fixes or changes. If they can make this more versatile without doing away with what you love about, then that only makes the product even better.

Often such criticisms are quick reactions formed out of thin air or at best 2 minutes of barely trying the plugin. It is almost never accompanied by any audio examples or clear specifics.

I agree it is important that there is room for people to express some criticism... and there is plenty of room in this forum. It is also important that there is room for someone else to not agree with it and hopefully some worthwhile discussion (free of personal attacks and name calling) ensues.

[egbert]

I love the sound but tbh its too muddy and dull for my music will be skipping this

That is what filters are for - eq pre or post reverb to sculpt the frequency balance of the reverb.

[Russell Grand]

a) I, for one, am not complaining. I simply have a different opinion and I wanted to share it.

b) I saw and tried the soft clip button. My opinion remains the same.

c) There's not plenty-o-grit for me, it's just not doing it for me.

d) I don't think this reverb is in any way bad. It's f*cking u-he, u-he doesn't make bad plugs. It's a high quality reverb, it just isn't for me. I can't justify spending $57, let alone full price, for an effect that is decent but adds nothing new to my arsenal.

e) I respect the opinions of everyone that likes Twangström and ColourCopy, why can't those same people respect my opinion? Why is it always necessary for others to try to convince me to re-check my opinion when I dislike something or when I don't like something as much as they do?

[AnX]

a) I, for one, am not complaining. I simply have a different opinion and I wanted to share it.

b) I saw and tried the soft clip button. My opinion remains the same.

c) There's not plenty-o-grit for me, it's just not doing it for me.

d) I don't think this reverb is in any way bad. It's f*cking u-he, u-he doesn't make bad plugs. It's a high quality reverb, it just isn't for me. I can't justify spending $57, let alone full price, for an effect that is decent but adds nothing new to my arsenal.

e) I respect the opinions of everyone that likes Twangström and ColourCopy, why can't those same people respect my opinion? Why is it always necessary for others to try to convince me to re-check my opinion when I dislike something or when I don't like something as much as they do?

its made by uhe, if you dont like their stuff, you're wrong

[aaron aardvark]

After trying it for an hour: I don't play as much surf rock as I used to, though if you want ultra-springy reverb, Twangstrom is the ticket. I got a kick out of the gui (that's a good thing).

[Russell Grand]

it’s about people wanting options. As much as I disagree about there not being enough grit, this is not “exactly” right for everyone and it’s important to let people have an opinion without someone jumping to u-he’s defense and twisting their comments and yes... spinning. Grit or saturation is just that and it is very important to many of us.

A beta period is exactly the place and time to voice criticisms. If it were perfect, there would be no beta and no bug fixes or changes. If they can make this more versatile without doing away with what you love about, then that only makes the product even better.

Often such criticisms are quick reactions formed out of thin air or at best 2 minutes of barely trying the plugin. It is almost never accompanied by any audio examples or clear specifics.

I agree it is important that there is room for people to express some criticism... and there is plenty of room in this forum. It is also important that there is room for someone else to not agree with it and hopefully some worthwhile discussion (free of personal attacks and name calling) ensues.

Great post. I do agree there should be discussion on both sides.

But it gets really old when posting a critical comment in a thread that is already full of glowing praise and there is an influx of fanboys replying about how the critical commenter is wrong and that he/she needs to listen again or even try this, this, or that after the critical commenter made it clear that he/she gave it a thorough testing. Now I'm not saying that people shouldn't offer advice, but many times criticism of that person's opinion comes cloaked in their offering advice. I see a lot of this in u-he threads... (admittedly with good reason because u-he makes some of the highest quality plugs, but) the constant questioning of one's opinion can be annoying and sometimes insulting.

[Russell Grand]

a) I, for one, am not complaining. I simply have a different opinion and I wanted to share it.

b) I saw and tried the soft clip button. My opinion remains the same.

c) There's not plenty-o-grit for me, it's just not doing it for me.

d) I don't think this reverb is in any way bad. It's f*cking u-he, u-he doesn't make bad plugs. It's a high quality reverb, it just isn't for me. I can't justify spending $57, let alone full price, for an effect that is decent but adds nothing new to my arsenal.

e) I respect the opinions of everyone that likes Twangström and ColourCopy, why can't those same people respect my opinion? Why is it always necessary for others to try to convince me to re-check my opinion when I dislike something or when I don't like something as much as they do?

its made by uhe, if you dont like their stuff, you're wrong

That's the long and short of it.

[yellowmix]

I don't understand the grit requests. Are they asking for heavier distortion from the drive knob? Is the soft clip and driving the output up not enough? Can people post audio examples of what this "grit" sounds like?

The drive sounds lovely to me. But you can definitely push it into complete distortion with the soft clip: https://clyp.it/aaq3b1zv

[pdxindy]

e) I respect the opinions of everyone that likes Twangström and ColourCopy, why can't those same people respect my opinion? Why is it always necessary for others to try to convince me to re-check my opinion when I dislike something or when I don't like something as much as they do?

Okay, X number of people read your post. Say 40 (I have no idea what actual numbers would be)... but say 40... out of those 40, maybe 2-3 people will respond to your initial post. Maybe 1 of those 2-3 actually is somehow bothered that someone doesn't like the plugin.

Out of a bunch of readers, it is inevitable in forums that someone will say something. Basically, what you are asking for is for every single person to do what you want. It aint ever gonna happen. When you say why is it always necessary for others... you are lumping basically everyone who likes the plugin into this oppositional group to you when it is usually one or two out of many who happen to say something... and for a variety of motivations.

And of course for each person like you, there is also gonna be someone else who expresses a similar opinion and someone will say but have you tried this or that and that person will say, oh thanks... hadn't tried that.

[Russell Grand]

Hey look, it's one of those annoying fanboys I was talking about!

You're turning it around, my friend. It's the people that continue riding me about my opinions that evidently want me to like what they like, not the other way around. Nice projection there.

Okay, I don't want to continue derailing this thread. I've said my piece, I stand by my opinions and comments, and now I'm outtie (for tonight)!

(Sorry for crashing your thread, Urs. 'Twasn't my intention. )

Get back to enjoying Twangström, peeps!

[sascha]

I don't understand the grit requests. Are they asking for heavier distortion from the drive knob? Is the soft clip and driving the output up not enough? Can people post audio examples of what this "grit" sounds like?

The drive sounds lovely to me. But you can definitely push it into complete distortion with the soft clip: https://clyp.it/aaq3b1zv

Since we're still working on the manual, let me give some info on this in advance:
The 'drive' control has a toal gain range of 48dB, which is pretty much like in guitar-pedal territory. The 'tone' control (acting as a kind of tilt filter) is in between. Drive is actually two soft-clipping stages around 'tone'. Thus, the two are interactive, which should be considered when trying to of dial in more 'grit'. Plus, and there's post-gain volume compensation going on.
Maybe it's less than some expect, but I can assure I've tried more gain, and it didn't make much sense in the context. The tank then was flooded by a noise-like signal, and the outcome then was also... noise. Developing such a thing is always a balancing act, and one has to see it from many angles.
I personally like Metal and Industrial, but the stuff I develop must also be capable to please somebody doing Jazz or Fusion. Roughly speaking.

Funny thing is, it was just yesterday when William (who created ColourCopy) said 'hm, I find the filter resonance way too mighty, it can easily add 30dB of gain around its center, that's huuuge'. I was like 'That's why there's soft-clip on the output'. We have lots of discussion in the office on how well or not so well a piece of software should behave, unless you're modelling a specific device with given degrees of freedom.
We considered implementing another filter (or another behaviour) first, but then put it aside, maybe for later. Our focus then was to concentrate on tank and modulation, and check how far people can already get with this concept (which we didn't want to water, it's still designed as a reverberating device). As a developer, you're always at risk of overengineering things in the first place, but sometimes it's better to think of software being an evolutionary process, and of knowledge gained on both sides over time.

That being said, we've always added features to every product over time, and we're together in places like this to keep that going. We definitely appreciate discussing products openly (hence public betas!), and it's great to see people being passionate and enthusiastic (it's all about making music!), as long as manners are preserved.

[glokraw]

...just can't relate to all the gushing fanboys. Decent sound but way too safe.

Trash 2 is almost always on sale somewhere. If U-he made
plugins that sounded that bad, they'd sound bad AND
cost us more money

[joe_b]

To get that discussion back to where it belongs:

I just played my second session with Twangström and started off with various Rhodes sounds - and again that's where I sticked. This duo just soooo amazing! Maybe I can force myself to try it on something else tomorrow, maybe a B3 next?

One thing though, U-He:
As it's a mechanical oscillator you might wanna try not to set the tension in the presets to a level that has an exact resonance on a note (like your "Touch of Twang" preset, try hitting F# on the keyboard with this one...) Maybe you could calculate the resonance and display it on hover?

About the filter:
I would have loved the ability to roll off both top and low end frequencies.

As far as Beta goes:
No Stability issues at all. Playing with MainStage on High Sierra.

[sascha]

Maybe you could calculate the resonance and display it on hover?

Thing is, it's never just a single frequency. On a type 9, it could even be six. Just checked with a real type 8, and I spotted two (a# directly and a+20cents). The type 4 on my desk resonantes at c-6cents and a-3cents, although it is generally more even. (Short tanks are usually more nasty and tinny in the mids)
Nevertheless, on the final factory presets we can try putting the tension between note values, at least with settings that might be prone to resonate more than others. Thanks for the hint.

[joe_b]

Thing is, it's never just a single frequency. On a type 9, it could even be six. Just checked with a real type 8, and I spotted two (a# directly and a+20cents). The type 4 on my desk resonantes at c-6cents and a-3cents, although it is generally more even. (Short tanks are usually more nasty and tinny in the mids)

Thanks for elaborating this! The distribution of the resonances is really interesting, would love to see an examplary bode plot of the basic spring configurations