Synths without PWM
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 7762 posts since 15 Sep, 2005 from East Coast of the USA
I know Sylenth1 doesn't have that feature, but there is a trick to fake it with certain settings. AFAIK discoDSP's Corona doesn't have it either.
Is there a reason why it would be implemented in some plugins and not others?
I am not a programmer myself, but is it that difficult to add?
Is there a reason why it would be implemented in some plugins and not others?
I am not a programmer myself, but is it that difficult to add?
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- Banned
- 3889 posts since 3 Feb, 2010
Ask Lennardigital
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 7762 posts since 15 Sep, 2005 from East Coast of the USA
That feature has been requested many times, but I didn't ask him directly why it hasn't been added.
- u-he
- 28067 posts since 8 Aug, 2002 from Berlin
To my best knowledge, Sylenth1 uses so called "MipMapping" of static waveforms, i.e. it has keeps each waveform in separate tables for a range of frequencies. This is a very efficient way to avoid aliasing, but it does not allow for continuous changes of the waveform.
The easiest way to create PWM with this is to play two sawtooth waveforms with opposite polarity. Obviously, this doubles the CPU usage, and maybe this was a consideration. Maybe they thought they'd get away with it since the Minimoog doesn't have PWM either. And of course, the trick is to simply waste two oscillators (again, twice the CPU). Other tricks include using an inverting delay on the sawtooth, where the delay time is a fraction of waveform cycle.
It is not difficult to add when a synth can do a sawtooth waveform. Hence, my best guess: The reason is CPU load.
The easiest way to create PWM with this is to play two sawtooth waveforms with opposite polarity. Obviously, this doubles the CPU usage, and maybe this was a consideration. Maybe they thought they'd get away with it since the Minimoog doesn't have PWM either. And of course, the trick is to simply waste two oscillators (again, twice the CPU). Other tricks include using an inverting delay on the sawtooth, where the delay time is a fraction of waveform cycle.
It is not difficult to add when a synth can do a sawtooth waveform. Hence, my best guess: The reason is CPU load.
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fluffy_little_something fluffy_little_something https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=281847
- Banned
- 12880 posts since 5 Jun, 2012
When I use the workaround in Sylenth1, I don't see an increase in the CPU load. And even if there were a slight increase, who would care these days, when computers are so much more powerful than a decade ago...
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fluffy_little_something fluffy_little_something https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=281847
- Banned
- 12880 posts since 5 Jun, 2012
Isn't that also how Hive works? But with 3 samples per octave rather than 2. Something like that?Urs wrote: ↑Fri Dec 07, 2018 1:44 pm To my best knowledge, Sylenth1 uses so called "MipMapping" of static waveforms, i.e. it has keeps each waveform in separate tables for a range of frequencies. This is a very efficient way to avoid aliasing, but it does not allow for continuous changes of the waveform.
The easiest way to create PWM with this is to play two sawtooth waveforms with opposite polarity. Obviously, this doubles the CPU usage, and maybe this was a consideration. Maybe they thought they'd get away with it since the Minimoog doesn't have PWM either. And of course, the trick is to simply waste two oscillators (again, twice the CPU). Other tricks include using an inverting delay on the sawtooth, where the delay time is a fraction of waveform cycle.
It is not difficult to add when a synth can do a sawtooth waveform. Hence, my best guess: The reason is CPU load.
- u-he
- 28067 posts since 8 Aug, 2002 from Berlin
The increase in CPU load manifest by sacrificing an oscillator. Sylenth1 becomes a two oscillator synth when using 2 x PWM.fluffy_little_something wrote: ↑Fri Dec 07, 2018 1:46 pm When I use the workaround in Sylenth1, I don't see an increase in the CPU load. And even if there were a slight increase, who would care these days, when computers are so much more powerful than a decade ago...
- u-he
- 28067 posts since 8 Aug, 2002 from Berlin
Yes, but we figured out brutally efficient tricks to do PWM.fluffy_little_something wrote: ↑Fri Dec 07, 2018 1:47 pmIsn't that also how Hive works? But with 3 samples per octave rather than 2. Something like that?
Not sure if it's 3 or 4 samples per octave. You can easily observe it when running Hive or Sylenth through SPAN and slowly move the pitch wheel (on +/- 12 semitones). Every now and then there'll be "empty space" above 17kHz or so.
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- Banned
- 658 posts since 4 Oct, 2018
Hmmm... Needs a head-scratching smiley.
Last edited by perfumer on Fri Dec 07, 2018 2:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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fluffy_little_something fluffy_little_something https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=281847
- Banned
- 12880 posts since 5 Jun, 2012
I think I have to waste an entire instance because one needs two saws of different layers. I tried it on one layer yesterday and it sounded different (as in worse), the real juicy PWM sound with LFO modulation is only there when using two layers.Urs wrote: ↑Fri Dec 07, 2018 1:48 pmThe increase in CPU load manifest by sacrificing an oscillator. Sylenth1 becomes a two oscillator synth when using 2 x PWM.fluffy_little_something wrote: ↑Fri Dec 07, 2018 1:46 pm When I use the workaround in Sylenth1, I don't see an increase in the CPU load. And even if there were a slight increase, who would care these days, when computers are so much more powerful than a decade ago...
I think it makes sense as only a layer has a phase mod target, not either oscillator of the same layer.
- Banned
- 7624 posts since 13 Nov, 2015 from Norway
Cant think og any other than sylenth1
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- u-he
- 28067 posts since 8 Aug, 2002 from Berlin
But it does (to some degree)... it's got /| and |\ so you can mix 2 oscillators with slight detune and you get nice PWM. However, the PWM speed depends on the notes you play, and it's always set to 100%