Zebra2 XY community project

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Simon-Claudius
KVRist
48 posts since 5 Aug, 2011

Post Fri Dec 07, 2018 5:59 am

Urs and/or Howard, could you maybe elaborate a bit more on the labels? How hard a requirement is the naming scheme of 8 or fewer characters? I’d like to strike the right balance between short labels and suitably detailed documentation. Given that many axes will likely have multiple (i.e. > 2) parameters mapped, staying below 8 characters appears to be challenging (unless I use less specific/technical terminology).

CinningBao
KVRAF
1792 posts since 15 Apr, 2004 from Capital City, UK

Re: Zebra2 XY community project

Post Fri Dec 07, 2018 6:28 am

8 characters? Hmm, I must've missed that in the original spec, darn it!

So is this, for example, entirely unsuitable?
Screen Shot 2018-12-07 at 14.22.16.jpg
It's ugly over two lines, I grant you, but it can be compressed.. still, how strict is the 8 character limit?
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Urs
u-he
22655 posts since 8 Aug, 2002 from Berlin

Re: Zebra2 XY community project

Post Fri Dec 07, 2018 6:31 am

Simon-Claudius wrote:
Fri Dec 07, 2018 5:59 am
Urs and/or Howard, could you maybe elaborate a bit more on the labels? How hard a requirement is the naming scheme of 8 or fewer characters? I’d like to strike the right balance between short labels and suitably detailed documentation. Given that many axes will likely have multiple (i.e. > 2) parameters mapped, staying below 8 characters appears to be challenging (unless I use less specific/technical terminology).
It's okay to use longer names.

No secret: We're doing this in part also for NKS support, and possibly other means of hardware control. In NKS, those labels are maxed out at 8 characters. But, they have a very good algorithm to shorten them, so it won't be too much of a problem if we have a few longer ones. It's just out of our control when it happens.

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Urs
u-he
22655 posts since 8 Aug, 2002 from Berlin

Re: Zebra2 XY community project

Post Fri Dec 07, 2018 6:32 am

CinningBao wrote:
Fri Dec 07, 2018 6:28 am
8 characters? Hmm, I must've missed that in the original spec, darn it!

So is this, for example, entirely unsuitable?
Screen Shot 2018-12-07 at 14.22.16.jpg

It's ugly over two lines, I grant you, but it can be compressed.. still, how strict is the 8 character limit?
Hehehe, we might have to edit it :)

An idea: Short names on first two lines, more detail below.

Funkybot's Evil Twin
KVRAF
5775 posts since 16 Aug, 2006

Re: Zebra2 XY community project

Post Fri Dec 07, 2018 6:38 am

CinningBao wrote:
Fri Dec 07, 2018 6:28 am
8 characters? Hmm, I must've missed that in the original spec, darn it!

So is this, for example, entirely unsuitable?
Screen Shot 2018-12-07 at 14.22.16.jpg

It's ugly over two lines, I grant you, but it can be compressed.. still, how strict is the 8 character limit?
I've gone a tiny bit over on a few presets so far, but where I could, I've just been simplifying the name rather than trying to document each control. So in your example, I might just simply call X, "Delay Mix." Or I might talk about the effect of a control (e.g. "brightness," "distortion") even if what's happening behind the scenes is more complicated than that. I figure anyone who was curious would go to the approriate XY tab and check out the assignments to see what's really going on.

Howard
KVRAF
3646 posts since 23 May, 2004 from Bad Vilbel, Germany

Re: Zebra2 XY community project

Post Fri Dec 07, 2018 6:42 am

I think non-technical labels are best, if possible e.g. space, simpler, lights, mindbend, colour, mud, liquids... stuff like that. Embrace and get creative with an 8-character "limit"!

3ee
KVRAF
3639 posts since 8 Mar, 2006

Re: Zebra2 XY community project

Post Fri Dec 07, 2018 8:36 am

tip: , where applicable, one can put this in to indicate bipolar mod.. "-|+"
...where, if at all possible, the main label ("Filters") and the label for X and Y are each a maximum of 8 characters long.
hmm... back to the drawing board :D

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bmrzycki
KVRAF
4072 posts since 11 Aug, 2006 from Austin, TX

Re: Zebra2 XY community project

Post Fri Dec 07, 2018 9:39 am

Me either!
Feel free to call me Brian.

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Landeplage
KVRer
5 posts since 26 Nov, 2018

Re: Zebra2 XY community project

Post Fri Dec 07, 2018 11:06 am

When I mess with the delay Mix and reverb Wet parameters, there is a slight decrease/increase in volume. Should we level this out using one of the gain parameters, or should it not be evened out at all?

I've been using the Master gain to level it out so far, but it might make someone who removes the delay/reverb modules confused as to why the volume changes.

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EvilDragon
KVRAF
17158 posts since 7 Jan, 2009 from Croatia

Re: Zebra2 XY community project

Post Fri Dec 07, 2018 2:49 pm

Urs wrote:
Fri Dec 07, 2018 6:31 am
In NKS, those labels are maxed out at 8 characters.
Do note that this 8 char limitation is I think only for S-series mkI keyboards and perhaps Maschine Mikro. But I think even Mikro can show more than 8 chars. On S-series mkII there's bigger/better displays and IIRC they can show up to 12, or perhaps even 16 chars. I gotta check.

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Sound Author
KVRian
596 posts since 8 Mar, 2008 from Crestview, Florida

Re: Zebra2 XY community project

Post Fri Dec 07, 2018 4:14 pm

Howard wrote:
Fri Dec 07, 2018 6:42 am
I think non-technical labels are best, if possible e.g. space, simpler, lights, mindbend, colour, mud, liquids... stuff like that. Embrace and get creative with an 8-character "limit"!
I agree. Too much detail can be distracting. I don't list every single thing that's happening in the XY map. I just try to mention the most pertinent things. I think it's okay if there are a few clever things hiding in the background. Just as long as the user gets the general idea of what's happening.

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Sound Author
KVRian
596 posts since 8 Mar, 2008 from Crestview, Florida

Re: Zebra2 XY community project

Post Sat Dec 08, 2018 6:20 pm

I don't know if this is very commonplace, but a lot of my XY routing caters to people who might not have Mod Wheel or Aftertouch. I know that sounds a bit silly to some people, but I was once one of those people, and I know how frustrating it can be to have patches you can't fully use because you lack the proper MIDI control.

So, I often have XY controls manually taking over Mod Wheel and Aftertouch assignments by turning those modulation depths (via MW or AT) down and then modulating those target parameters directly with the XY. Then, of course, everything goes back to normal at the center position. This isn't how I always do things, but I often think of XY controls as "just in case you don't have a proper MIDI controller" controls.

Funkybot's Evil Twin
KVRAF
5775 posts since 16 Aug, 2006

Re: Zebra2 XY community project

Post Sun Dec 09, 2018 9:11 am

Sound Author wrote:
Sat Dec 08, 2018 6:20 pm
I don't know if this is very commonplace, but a lot of my XY routing caters to people who might not have Mod Wheel or Aftertouch. I know that sounds a bit silly to some people, but I was once one of those people, and I know how frustrating it can be to have patches you can't fully use because you lack the proper MIDI control.

So, I often have XY controls manually taking over Mod Wheel and Aftertouch assignments by turning those modulation depths (via MW or AT) down and then modulating those target parameters directly with the XY. Then, of course, everything goes back to normal at the center position. This isn't how I always do things, but I often think of XY controls as "just in case you don't have a proper MIDI controller" controls.
Earlier in the thread Urs said, "That said, if the ModWheel is already mapped onto something, I don't know how much sense it makes to add an XY on top. Unless of course the ModWheel also does something else. But in that case, it still does *something*, and maybe it's not necessary to work around it?"

Right or wrong, I've taken that as, 'if a parameter is already assigned, just find something else to modulate in the X/Ys.' But I'm very much in the same boat in that I don't have AT or BR controllers, so those existing assignments become useless to me. If we could do some remapping for certain types of controllers, I'd certainly be in favor of shifting some assignments to the X/Y's on some patches. Particularly, when your patch only has an Osc, a comb, and 1 Env with no effects. Makes it a bit tricker to fill up those assignments. :wink:

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Urs
u-he
22655 posts since 8 Aug, 2002 from Berlin

Re: Zebra2 XY community project

Post Sun Dec 09, 2018 9:37 am

I think AT and BR (or CTRL A, as we call it now) would be fine for concurrent XY mappings. Most people have ModWheels, but not all have BR or AT. And even if they have AT, it might be tricky to play with.

Funkybot's Evil Twin
KVRAF
5775 posts since 16 Aug, 2006

Re: Zebra2 XY community project

Post Sun Dec 09, 2018 9:42 am

Urs wrote:
Sun Dec 09, 2018 9:37 am
I think AT and BR (or CTRL A, as we call it now) would be fine for concurrent XY mappings. Most people have ModWheels, but not all have BR or AT. And even if they have AT, it might be tricky to play with.
That's good news. Thanks for clarifying.

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