The Samplitude Sounds Great Thread
- Rad Grandad
- 38044 posts since 6 Sep, 2003 from Downeast Maine
I'll be 12 years on samp in feb, I'm not going to make any claims that it sounds better than other DAWs...all I can say is I like how my music sounds in Samplitude. The bottom line is I haven't tested anything in 12 years so it would be a statement made from ignorance, I have invested my time in learning Samp and it serves my needs and that's all I need.
The highest form of knowledge is empathy, for it requires us to suspend our egos and live in another's world. It requires profound, purpose‐larger‐than‐the‐self kind of understanding.
- KVRAF
- 25053 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from gonesville
If the audio result nulls, it is a matter of fact it's the same result. "Facts don't bother me, I'm a believer" is why the world is in the state it's in today.
It may sound different in the reality-based assessment if the plugins are different than the other DAW's, and it won't null.
Full stop. That's the test for difference. If it doesn't 100% null, there's something going on.
The argument for it having the one PURE result via its engine is something to do with dithering? Is that not a non-sequitur?
This is like this other thread here, people need their personal impression to become The Truth. That's pretty egoistic, isn't it?
I hate to have to say this, as I think the thread itself exists in order to promote this particular fight, or at least bring the people in with that particular belief for ridicule, but it's out there evidently.
- KVRian
- 722 posts since 31 Aug, 2004 from England !
I chose my words carefully, and this is exactly what I refer to when I say "wanking over null tests". Lots of talk of NULL tests disproving this but never ever any conclusive evidence out the back of these null tests.jancivil wrote: ↑Sat Dec 08, 2018 6:10 pm If the audio result nulls, it is a matter of fact it's the same result. "Facts don't bother me, I'm a believer" is why the world is in the state it's in today.
It may sound different in the reality-based assessment if the plugins are different than the other DAW's, and it won't null.
Full stop. That's the test for difference. If it doesn't 100% null, there's something going on.
The argument for it having the one PURE result via its engine is something to do with dithering? Is that not a non-sequitur?
This is like this other thread here, people need their personal impression to become The Truth. That's pretty egoistic, isn't it?
I hate to have to say this, as I think the thread itself exists in order to promote this particular fight, or at least bring the people in with that particular belief for ridicule, but it's out there evidently.
If it's been done to death and it's so categoric - where are the results? All I can ever find is non consistent, variable induced shakey attempts from forum users that inevitably don't stand up to proper scrutiny.
Of course jancivil if you have conclusive evidence via NULL testing that Sampltiude, when under load with third party VSTi' usage sounds exactly the same as every other DAW in playback then I'd really like to take a look at the results please.
I am egotistical. But why is that relevant?This is like this other thread here, people need their personal impression to become The Truth. That's pretty egoistic, isn't it?
- KVRAF
- 9576 posts since 16 Dec, 2002
So its just under these circumstances it sounds better?
Wonder what I did with my popcorn maker?
Amazon: why not use an alternative
- KVRAF
- 25053 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from gonesville
I said egoistic, which is a different word (if you want to get into precision) than egotistic. The meaning there should be clear; you have an impression that this particular DAW/Host 'sounds better' and you actually want an argument you're trying to make make it fact, the Truth. (difference being, 'egoistic' does not carry the aspect of "I'm superior", it just means self-involved basically.)
NB: I did not say there was any null test produced. If it is, nulled - note the choice of words - there can't be a real difference. That's reality. I also said 'if_it_doesn't null, there's something going on'.
And so 'we forgot to dither' in creating a 32-bit floating point engine sounded good to you but it seems like bullshit to me. It seems like someone trying to formulate a bulletproof argument who... let me be careful here, isn't quite the person to tell us about it. I am entirely open to being proven wrong, but dithering in the coding of the engine? I'd actually love to know but I'm saying that seems like baffle them with bullshit to me (via the marketing dept) at this writing.
NB: I did not say there was any null test produced. If it is, nulled - note the choice of words - there can't be a real difference. That's reality. I also said 'if_it_doesn't null, there's something going on'.
And so 'we forgot to dither' in creating a 32-bit floating point engine sounded good to you but it seems like bullshit to me. It seems like someone trying to formulate a bulletproof argument who... let me be careful here, isn't quite the person to tell us about it. I am entirely open to being proven wrong, but dithering in the coding of the engine? I'd actually love to know but I'm saying that seems like baffle them with bullshit to me (via the marketing dept) at this writing.
- KVRAF
- 25053 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from gonesville
Well, where did I make any actual assertion as to any result?VariKusBrainZ wrote: ↑Sat Dec 08, 2018 6:59 pmSo its just under these circumstances it sounds better?
Wonder what I did with my popcorn maker?
For what's emphasized there, I suppose the plugins would all have to be the same, and the other host would have to deal in latency compensation exactly the same (& pan law has to be exactly the same); and if we bring in MIDI we're done, the same host with the same plugins in the same project dealing with MIDI and soft instruments can easily _be_ different playback-to-playback, let alone render to render. Vanishing probability of an identical result now.
THE POINT is that the audio engine is supposed to be better, now it's purer because no mistakes were made.
I'm not convinced, call me skeptical.
- Rad Grandad
- 38044 posts since 6 Sep, 2003 from Downeast Maine
I think as an ex-salesman my views are quite different. I am prone to blocking out fluff and puffing of advert lures and catch phrases. For instance I refused to sell features, instead I would highlight features I thought the customer would be interested in and then sell them on the benefits of that feature. (of course getting to know the customer quickly was key)
example: "This DAW has xxx" would be an example of the former and "because this DAW has xxx, you can do...." would be an example of the latter.
Fluff and puffing as is obvious in these threads can be actually offensive to those who know their stuff but I'm not sure why we still as informed consumers cant look past that in almost 2019. I do it all the time shopping for whatever I might be getting that day. It's odd to me that with the internet and all that's at our disposal that companies still market this way and that so many consumers are just too lazy to research. It even baffles me more why we have threads that get ugly about this, it's just advertising and marketing, the rest is up to the educated consumer.
example: "This DAW has xxx" would be an example of the former and "because this DAW has xxx, you can do...." would be an example of the latter.
Fluff and puffing as is obvious in these threads can be actually offensive to those who know their stuff but I'm not sure why we still as informed consumers cant look past that in almost 2019. I do it all the time shopping for whatever I might be getting that day. It's odd to me that with the internet and all that's at our disposal that companies still market this way and that so many consumers are just too lazy to research. It even baffles me more why we have threads that get ugly about this, it's just advertising and marketing, the rest is up to the educated consumer.
The highest form of knowledge is empathy, for it requires us to suspend our egos and live in another's world. It requires profound, purpose‐larger‐than‐the‐self kind of understanding.
-
- addled muppet weed
- 105769 posts since 26 Jan, 2003 from through the looking glass
there was that racist little dick here a bit back, he was the only person i ever heard making the claim that the audio engine sounded better.
his reason "coded by white guys" i shit you not.
his reason "coded by white guys" i shit you not.
- KVRian
- 722 posts since 31 Aug, 2004 from England !
Cool write up mate.jancivil wrote: ↑Sat Dec 08, 2018 7:55 pm I said egoistic, which is a different word (if you want to get into precision) than egotistic. The meaning there should be clear; you have an impression that this particular DAW/Host 'sounds better' and you actually want an argument you're trying to make make it fact, the Truth. (difference being, 'egoistic' does not carry the aspect of "I'm superior", it just means self-involved basically.)
NB: I did not say there was any null test produced. If it is, nulled - note the choice of words - there can't be a real difference. That's reality. I also said 'if_it_doesn't null, there's something going on'.
And so 'we forgot to dither' in creating a 32-bit floating point engine sounded good to you but it seems like bullshit to me. It seems like someone trying to formulate a bulletproof argument who... let me be careful here, isn't quite the person to tell us about it. I am entirely open to being proven wrong, but dithering in the coding of the engine? I'd actually love to know but I'm saying that seems like baffle them with bullshit to me (via the marketing dept) at this writing.
- KVRian
- 569 posts since 9 Jan, 2012 from Dona Ana, New Mexiico in the US of A
The one thing I notice with Samplitude(8 and below) was the EQ filters are a lot easier right off the mixer, a little quicker for me atleast to reach a sweet spot than a VST.
I still finalize in Saplitude as it does give more reliable results for CD production, however, Single's don't necessitate leaving the DAW so lately I don't open Samplitude as much as I used too.
I still finalize in Saplitude as it does give more reliable results for CD production, however, Single's don't necessitate leaving the DAW so lately I don't open Samplitude as much as I used too.
-
- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 42 posts since 23 Aug, 2018
Not talking about nulling files. But did you ever take the same project, using the same 3rd party plugs, in two different DAWs and directly A/B them?Coxy wrote: ↑Sat Dec 08, 2018 11:40 amSamplitude DOES sound better. To me. I have personally owned and extensively used (that is used for more than 2 years solidly for my main DAW)WotEva wrote: ↑Sat Dec 08, 2018 3:43 amOh I am aware of this. I just want to see if some are brave enough to actually post well set up examples of the claims, you know, so we can all hear that magic.VariKusBrainZ wrote: ↑Fri Dec 07, 2018 9:02 pm Anyone who makes this assertion is letting you know theyre clueless and susceptible to marketing BS and myth
-Live
-Cubase from SL3 to v8
-Studio one
-Samplitude Pro X2 to ProX3
-Now Logic Pro (coming up to my second year now)
Samplitude to me still to this day will always be remembered about how it just 'sings' on playback. My use was always with VST's and audio combined never just audio on it's own.
I've posted the quote below from the Samp founders and still developers maybe 5 times here already but people seem to skirt around it...
Source: Sound on Sound interview.
It's not the GUI playing tricks with my optical audible feedback loop cause it looks dated and frankly I like the look of Logic Pro and Cubase more.From the very beginning, two hallmarks have defined the philosophy behind Samplitude: [snip] and an obsessive commitment to purity of sound quality.
Herberger is sceptical about the notion that there are no sonic differences between audio programs. [snip]
I think the big thing about the sound quality is to make no mistakes. You must not do mistakes in the DSP. It's a big goal, and a lot of errors and not-clever routines are done by a lot of parties on the market, and people who are trained to hear audio will discover these immediately. Six or seven years ago, we had a patch for a new Samplitude version, and one day an American guy called us and said 'Hey, you did something wrong in your program. It sounds bad now.' We measured, and did tests, and after a long time we found out that in the 24th bit of the audio in going from floating-point arithmetic that we do internally down to the sample level through a 24-bit converter, we forgot the dithering. I personally could not hear this, to be honest — but you can measure it, and in a program as huge as Samplitude, you have a thousand points where you can make a mistake of this sort.”
It's not me being biased because I use it and want to defend a purchase. I don't use it anymore, I got rid ages ago, it might sound sublime (it really does) but it crashed like f**k on heavy VST projects and it became an absolute showstopper for me ultimately being the catalyst of a 12 month production hiatus and eventual move to Apple. I have every reason to hate on Samplitude... but I do miss it's sweet sound.
Sometimes I wish I still used it for mixing and mastering only for that transparent, pristine accuracy in sound.
And finally, I didn't find info saying "Samplitude sounds better" so decided to purchase it. I tried out the trial, sound quality struck me amongst other things.
I ended up purchasing and after months of usage I would get days where I'd still just be astounded by how good it sounded, so convinced was I that I thought there must be something in this so spent considerable time researching for information on whether I was mental or this was entirely possible.
For those non believers who'd rather wank over null tests, you crack on. Doesn't bother me.
I only ask because for example, sometimes if I demo a new plug I find myself thinking this plug is great I'm definitely going to buy it. That is until I directly compare it with another similar plug that I own. I then often wind up realising that although there are different tonal characteristics between the plugs, "quality" isn't in question for either of them. By that I mean both the plug that I own and the one I am demo-ing, are of equal sound quality.
That is why I'm interested in the quantifying of Samplitude's supposed "pristine sound" over other offerings. I would just like to see/hear some examples that lead people to hold this belief. If there is a clear difference we should be able to hear it.
-
- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 42 posts since 23 Aug, 2018
I have wondered if a placebo effect might be involved? Like you said they market it and highlight the quality of the sound engine. Perhaps they have done that thing were you speak something into existence by saying it enough that eventually some think it is fact.Hink wrote: ↑Sat Dec 08, 2018 8:35 pm I think as an ex-salesman my views are quite different. I am prone to blocking out fluff and puffing of advert lures and catch phrases. For instance I refused to sell features, instead I would highlight features I thought the customer would be interested in and then sell them on the benefits of that feature. (of course getting to know the customer quickly was key)
example: "This DAW has xxx" would be an example of the former and "because this DAW has xxx, you can do...." would be an example of the latter.
Fluff and puffing as is obvious in these threads can be actually offensive to those who know their stuff but I'm not sure why we still as informed consumers cant look past that in almost 2019. I do it all the time shopping for whatever I might be getting that day. It's odd to me that with the internet and all that's at our disposal that companies still market this way and that so many consumers are just too lazy to research. It even baffles me more why we have threads that get ugly about this, it's just advertising and marketing, the rest is up to the educated consumer.
-
- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 42 posts since 23 Aug, 2018
Not here to ridicule or promote a fight. That's why I said in the OP let's not make this a "single sine wav nulls" thread. I am just genuinely curious about seeing or hearing some examples that backup these statements. I have come across some experienced people who have held this opinion and have finally gotten to the point where I'd like to find out if there's any proof to these "pure", "more accurate", or "pristine" statements. If the people making them have done any direct compares, or if it's all just a "feeling" they have?jancivil wrote: ↑Sat Dec 08, 2018 6:10 pmIf the audio result nulls, it is a matter of fact it's the same result. "Facts don't bother me, I'm a believer" is why the world is in the state it's in today.
It may sound different in the reality-based assessment if the plugins are different than the other DAW's, and it won't null.
Full stop. That's the test for difference. If it doesn't 100% null, there's something going on.
The argument for it having the one PURE result via its engine is something to do with dithering? Is that not a non-sequitur?
This is like this other thread here, people need their personal impression to become The Truth. That's pretty egoistic, isn't it?
I hate to have to say this, as I think the thread itself exists in order to promote this particular fight, or at least bring the people in with that particular belief for ridicule, but it's out there evidently.
-
- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 42 posts since 23 Aug, 2018
I remember reading a report on Magix a while back where the article stated that there some potential future financial concerns for Magix as more than 50% of their customer base were over 45 years of age. I personally haven't come across any particularly youthful Samplitude users. Not to say they don't exist. I have chatted to two blokes a while back who were early to mid 30's and used the platform, but most seem to be 40+.
The reason I bring this up, is hearing. Most people slowly lose the top end of their hearing as they age. As some have pointed out, Samplitude automatically upsamples.
Is it possible that the reason for the impression by some that Samplitude sounds better, is that middle aged users are perhaps hearing the results of the filter cutoff of most DAWs as a percieved fuzzier/nastier hiss? It might be the case that Samplitude's up sampling makes that top end sound slightly smoother to those who are losing hearing in that area?
What I mean by this is people who haven't entirely lost the ability to hear up near the nyquist, but have reduced differential capabilities in this area of the frequency spectrum, may find that the hiss is more prominent when a filter cuttoff is walling against the decay of those sounds? Thus giving them an impression that Samplitude sounds better/clearer/more pristine.
The reason I bring this up, is hearing. Most people slowly lose the top end of their hearing as they age. As some have pointed out, Samplitude automatically upsamples.
Is it possible that the reason for the impression by some that Samplitude sounds better, is that middle aged users are perhaps hearing the results of the filter cutoff of most DAWs as a percieved fuzzier/nastier hiss? It might be the case that Samplitude's up sampling makes that top end sound slightly smoother to those who are losing hearing in that area?
What I mean by this is people who haven't entirely lost the ability to hear up near the nyquist, but have reduced differential capabilities in this area of the frequency spectrum, may find that the hiss is more prominent when a filter cuttoff is walling against the decay of those sounds? Thus giving them an impression that Samplitude sounds better/clearer/more pristine.
-
- KVRer
- 14 posts since 21 Aug, 2007
Nonsense.WotEva wrote: ↑Mon Dec 10, 2018 5:50 am I remember reading a report on Magix a while back where the article stated that there some potential future financial concerns for Magix as more than 50% of their customer base were over 45 years of age. I personally haven't come across any particularly youthful Samplitude users. Not to say they don't exist. I have chatted to two blokes a while back who were early to mid 30's and used the platform, but most seem to be 40+.
The reason I bring this up, is hearing. Most people slowly lose the top end of their hearing as they age. As some have pointed out, Samplitude automatically upsamples.
Is it possible that the reason for the impression by some that Samplitude sounds better, is that middle aged users are perhaps hearing the results of the filter cutoff of most DAWs as a percieved fuzzier/nastier hiss? It might be the case that Samplitude's up sampling makes that top end sound slightly smoother to those who are losing hearing in that area?
What I mean by this is people who haven't entirely lost the ability to hear up near the nyquist, but have reduced differential capabilities in this area of the frequency spectrum, may find that the hiss is more prominent when a filter cuttoff is walling against the decay of those sounds? Thus giving them an impression that Samplitude sounds better/clearer/more pristine.