The Samplitude Sounds Great Thread

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Hink
Rad Grandad
28020 posts since 6 Sep, 2003 from Downeast Maine

Post Sat Dec 08, 2018 9:59 am

I'll be 12 years on samp in feb, I'm not going to make any claims that it sounds better than other DAWs...all I can say is I like how my music sounds in Samplitude. The bottom line is I haven't tested anything in 12 years so it would be a statement made from ignorance, I have invested my time in learning Samp and it serves my needs and that's all I need.
Albert Einstein may have been a genius but his brother Frank was a monster

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jancivil
KVRAF
17528 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from No Location

Re: The Samplitude Sounds Great Thread

Post Sat Dec 08, 2018 10:10 am

Coxy wrote:
Sat Dec 08, 2018 3:40 am
For those non believers who'd rather wank over null tests, you crack on. Doesn't bother me.
If the audio result nulls, it is a matter of fact it's the same result. "Facts don't bother me, I'm a believer" is why the world is in the state it's in today.

It may sound different in the reality-based assessment if the plugins are different than the other DAW's, and it won't null.
Full stop. That's the test for difference. If it doesn't 100% null, there's something going on.

The argument for it having the one PURE result via its engine is something to do with dithering? Is that not a non-sequitur?

This is like this other thread here, people need their personal impression to become The Truth. That's pretty egoistic, isn't it?

I hate to have to say this, as I think the thread itself exists in order to promote this particular fight, or at least bring the people in with that particular belief for ridicule, but it's out there evidently.

User avatar
Coxy
KVRian
671 posts since 31 Aug, 2004 from England !

Re: The Samplitude Sounds Great Thread

Post Sat Dec 08, 2018 10:38 am

jancivil wrote:
Sat Dec 08, 2018 10:10 am
If the audio result nulls, it is a matter of fact it's the same result. "Facts don't bother me, I'm a believer" is why the world is in the state it's in today.

It may sound different in the reality-based assessment if the plugins are different than the other DAW's, and it won't null.
Full stop. That's the test for difference. If it doesn't 100% null, there's something going on.

The argument for it having the one PURE result via its engine is something to do with dithering? Is that not a non-sequitur?

This is like this other thread here, people need their personal impression to become The Truth. That's pretty egoistic, isn't it?

I hate to have to say this, as I think the thread itself exists in order to promote this particular fight, or at least bring the people in with that particular belief for ridicule, but it's out there evidently.
I chose my words carefully, and this is exactly what I refer to when I say "wanking over null tests". Lots of talk of NULL tests disproving this but never ever any conclusive evidence out the back of these null tests.

If it's been done to death and it's so categoric - where are the results? All I can ever find is non consistent, variable induced shakey attempts from forum users that inevitably don't stand up to proper scrutiny.

Of course jancivil if you have conclusive evidence via NULL testing that Sampltiude, when under load with third party VSTi' usage sounds exactly the same as every other DAW in playback then I'd really like to take a look at the results please.
This is like this other thread here, people need their personal impression to become The Truth. That's pretty egoistic, isn't it?
I am egotistical. But why is that relevant?

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VariKusBrainZ
KVRAF
8737 posts since 16 Dec, 2002

Re: The Samplitude Sounds Great Thread

Post Sat Dec 08, 2018 10:59 am

Coxy wrote:
Sat Dec 08, 2018 10:38 am
Of course jancivil if you have conclusive evidence via NULL testing that Sampltiude, when under load with third party VSTi' usage sounds exactly the same as every other DAW in playback then I'd really like to take a look at the results please.
So its just under these circumstances it sounds better?

Wonder what I did with my popcorn maker?

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jancivil
KVRAF
17528 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from No Location

Re: The Samplitude Sounds Great Thread

Post Sat Dec 08, 2018 11:55 am

I said egoistic, which is a different word (if you want to get into precision) than egotistic. The meaning there should be clear; you have an impression that this particular DAW/Host 'sounds better' and you actually want an argument you're trying to make make it fact, the Truth. (difference being, 'egoistic' does not carry the aspect of "I'm superior", it just means self-involved basically.)

NB: I did not say there was any null test produced. If it is, nulled - note the choice of words - there can't be a real difference. That's reality. I also said 'if_it_doesn't null, there's something going on'.

And so 'we forgot to dither' in creating a 32-bit floating point engine sounded good to you but it seems like bullshit to me. It seems like someone trying to formulate a bulletproof argument who... let me be careful here, isn't quite the person to tell us about it. I am entirely open to being proven wrong, but dithering in the coding of the engine? I'd actually love to know but I'm saying that seems like baffle them with bullshit to me (via the marketing dept) at this writing.

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jancivil
KVRAF
17528 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from No Location

Re: The Samplitude Sounds Great Thread

Post Sat Dec 08, 2018 12:05 pm

VariKusBrainZ wrote:
Sat Dec 08, 2018 10:59 am
Coxy wrote:
Sat Dec 08, 2018 10:38 am
Of course jancivil if you have conclusive evidence via NULL testing that Sampltiude, when under load with third party VSTi' usage sounds exactly the same as every other DAW in playback then I'd really like to take a look at the results please.
So its just under these circumstances it sounds better?

Wonder what I did with my popcorn maker?
Well, where did I make any actual assertion as to any result?

For what's emphasized there, I suppose the plugins would all have to be the same, and the other host would have to deal in latency compensation exactly the same (& pan law has to be exactly the same); and if we bring in MIDI we're done, the same host with the same plugins in the same project dealing with MIDI and soft instruments can easily _be_ different playback-to-playback, let alone render to render. Vanishing probability of an identical result now.

THE POINT is that the audio engine is supposed to be better, now it's purer because no mistakes were made.
I'm not convinced, call me skeptical.

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Hink
Rad Grandad
28020 posts since 6 Sep, 2003 from Downeast Maine

Re: The Samplitude Sounds Great Thread

Post Sat Dec 08, 2018 12:35 pm

I think as an ex-salesman my views are quite different. I am prone to blocking out fluff and puffing of advert lures and catch phrases. For instance I refused to sell features, instead I would highlight features I thought the customer would be interested in and then sell them on the benefits of that feature. (of course getting to know the customer quickly was key)

example: "This DAW has xxx" would be an example of the former and "because this DAW has xxx, you can do...." would be an example of the latter.

Fluff and puffing as is obvious in these threads can be actually offensive to those who know their stuff but I'm not sure why we still as informed consumers cant look past that in almost 2019. I do it all the time shopping for whatever I might be getting that day. It's odd to me that with the internet and all that's at our disposal that companies still market this way and that so many consumers are just too lazy to research. It even baffles me more why we have threads that get ugly about this, it's just advertising and marketing, the rest is up to the educated consumer. :shrug:
Albert Einstein may have been a genius but his brother Frank was a monster

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vurt
addled muppet weed
41663 posts since 26 Jan, 2003 from through the looking glass

Re: The Samplitude Sounds Great Thread

Post Sat Dec 08, 2018 12:45 pm

there was that racist little dick here a bit back, he was the only person i ever heard making the claim that the audio engine sounded better.

his reason "coded by white guys" i shit you not.

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Coxy
KVRian
671 posts since 31 Aug, 2004 from England !

Re: The Samplitude Sounds Great Thread

Post Sat Dec 08, 2018 1:11 pm

jancivil wrote:
Sat Dec 08, 2018 11:55 am
I said egoistic, which is a different word (if you want to get into precision) than egotistic. The meaning there should be clear; you have an impression that this particular DAW/Host 'sounds better' and you actually want an argument you're trying to make make it fact, the Truth. (difference being, 'egoistic' does not carry the aspect of "I'm superior", it just means self-involved basically.)

NB: I did not say there was any null test produced. If it is, nulled - note the choice of words - there can't be a real difference. That's reality. I also said 'if_it_doesn't null, there's something going on'.

And so 'we forgot to dither' in creating a 32-bit floating point engine sounded good to you but it seems like bullshit to me. It seems like someone trying to formulate a bulletproof argument who... let me be careful here, isn't quite the person to tell us about it. I am entirely open to being proven wrong, but dithering in the coding of the engine? I'd actually love to know but I'm saying that seems like baffle them with bullshit to me (via the marketing dept) at this writing.
Cool write up mate.

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CTStump
KVRian
559 posts since 9 Jan, 2012 from Dona Ana, New Mexiico in the US of A

Re: The Samplitude Sounds Great Thread

Post Sat Dec 08, 2018 1:31 pm

The one thing I notice with Samplitude(8 and below) was the EQ filters are a lot easier right off the mixer, a little quicker for me atleast to reach a sweet spot than a VST.

I still finalize in Saplitude as it does give more reliable results for CD production, however, Single's don't necessitate leaving the DAW so lately I don't open Samplitude as much as I used too.

WotEva
KVRist
35 posts since 23 Aug, 2018

Re: The Samplitude Sounds Great Thread

Post Sat Dec 08, 2018 8:27 pm

Coxy wrote:
Sat Dec 08, 2018 3:40 am
WotEva wrote:
Fri Dec 07, 2018 7:43 pm
VariKusBrainZ wrote:
Fri Dec 07, 2018 1:02 pm
Anyone who makes this assertion is letting you know theyre clueless and susceptible to marketing BS and myth
Oh I am aware of this. I just want to see if some are brave enough to actually post well set up examples of the claims, you know, so we can all hear that magic.
Samplitude DOES sound better. To me. I have personally owned and extensively used (that is used for more than 2 years solidly for my main DAW)

-Live
-Cubase from SL3 to v8
-Studio one
-Samplitude Pro X2 to ProX3
-Now Logic Pro (coming up to my second year now)

Samplitude to me still to this day will always be remembered about how it just 'sings' on playback. My use was always with VST's and audio combined never just audio on it's own.

I've posted the quote below from the Samp founders and still developers maybe 5 times here already but people seem to skirt around it...

Source: Sound on Sound interview.
From the very beginning, two hallmarks have defined the philosophy behind Samplitude: [snip] and an obsessive commitment to purity of sound quality.

Herberger is sceptical about the notion that there are no sonic differences between audio programs. [snip]

I think the big thing about the sound quality is to make no mistakes. You must not do mistakes in the DSP. It's a big goal, and a lot of errors and not-clever routines are done by a lot of parties on the market, and people who are trained to hear audio will discover these immediately. Six or seven years ago, we had a patch for a new Samplitude version, and one day an American guy called us and said 'Hey, you did something wrong in your program. It sounds bad now.' We measured, and did tests, and after a long time we found out that in the 24th bit of the audio in going from floating-point arithmetic that we do internally down to the sample level through a 24-bit converter, we forgot the dithering. I personally could not hear this, to be honest — but you can measure it, and in a program as huge as Samplitude, you have a thousand points where you can make a mistake of this sort.”
It's not the GUI playing tricks with my optical audible feedback loop cause it looks dated and frankly I like the look of Logic Pro and Cubase more.

It's not me being biased because I use it and want to defend a purchase. I don't use it anymore, I got rid ages ago, it might sound sublime (it really does) but it crashed like f**k on heavy VST projects and it became an absolute showstopper for me ultimately being the catalyst of a 12 month production hiatus and eventual move to Apple. I have every reason to hate on Samplitude... but I do miss it's sweet sound.

Sometimes I wish I still used it for mixing and mastering only for that transparent, pristine accuracy in sound.

And finally, I didn't find info saying "Samplitude sounds better" so decided to purchase it. I tried out the trial, sound quality struck me amongst other things.

I ended up purchasing and after months of usage I would get days where I'd still just be astounded by how good it sounded, so convinced was I that I thought there must be something in this so spent considerable time researching for information on whether I was mental or this was entirely possible.

For those non believers who'd rather wank over null tests, you crack on. Doesn't bother me.
Not talking about nulling files. But did you ever take the same project, using the same 3rd party plugs, in two different DAWs and directly A/B them?

I only ask because for example, sometimes if I demo a new plug I find myself thinking this plug is great I'm definitely going to buy it. That is until I directly compare it with another similar plug that I own. I then often wind up realising that although there are different tonal characteristics between the plugs, "quality" isn't in question for either of them. By that I mean both the plug that I own and the one I am demo-ing, are of equal sound quality.

That is why I'm interested in the quantifying of Samplitude's supposed "pristine sound" over other offerings. I would just like to see/hear some examples that lead people to hold this belief. If there is a clear difference we should be able to hear it.

WotEva
KVRist
35 posts since 23 Aug, 2018

Re: The Samplitude Sounds Great Thread

Post Sat Dec 08, 2018 8:30 pm

Hink wrote:
Sat Dec 08, 2018 12:35 pm
I think as an ex-salesman my views are quite different. I am prone to blocking out fluff and puffing of advert lures and catch phrases. For instance I refused to sell features, instead I would highlight features I thought the customer would be interested in and then sell them on the benefits of that feature. (of course getting to know the customer quickly was key)

example: "This DAW has xxx" would be an example of the former and "because this DAW has xxx, you can do...." would be an example of the latter.

Fluff and puffing as is obvious in these threads can be actually offensive to those who know their stuff but I'm not sure why we still as informed consumers cant look past that in almost 2019. I do it all the time shopping for whatever I might be getting that day. It's odd to me that with the internet and all that's at our disposal that companies still market this way and that so many consumers are just too lazy to research. It even baffles me more why we have threads that get ugly about this, it's just advertising and marketing, the rest is up to the educated consumer. :shrug:
I have wondered if a placebo effect might be involved? Like you said they market it and highlight the quality of the sound engine. Perhaps they have done that thing were you speak something into existence by saying it enough that eventually some think it is fact.

WotEva
KVRist
35 posts since 23 Aug, 2018

Re: The Samplitude Sounds Great Thread

Post Sat Dec 08, 2018 8:38 pm

jancivil wrote:
Sat Dec 08, 2018 10:10 am
Coxy wrote:
Sat Dec 08, 2018 3:40 am
For those non believers who'd rather wank over null tests, you crack on. Doesn't bother me.
If the audio result nulls, it is a matter of fact it's the same result. "Facts don't bother me, I'm a believer" is why the world is in the state it's in today.

It may sound different in the reality-based assessment if the plugins are different than the other DAW's, and it won't null.
Full stop. That's the test for difference. If it doesn't 100% null, there's something going on.

The argument for it having the one PURE result via its engine is something to do with dithering? Is that not a non-sequitur?

This is like this other thread here, people need their personal impression to become The Truth. That's pretty egoistic, isn't it?

I hate to have to say this, as I think the thread itself exists in order to promote this particular fight, or at least bring the people in with that particular belief for ridicule, but it's out there evidently.
Not here to ridicule or promote a fight. That's why I said in the OP let's not make this a "single sine wav nulls" thread. I am just genuinely curious about seeing or hearing some examples that backup these statements. I have come across some experienced people who have held this opinion and have finally gotten to the point where I'd like to find out if there's any proof to these "pure", "more accurate", or "pristine" statements. If the people making them have done any direct compares, or if it's all just a "feeling" they have?

WotEva
KVRist
35 posts since 23 Aug, 2018

Re: The Samplitude Sounds Great Thread

Post Sun Dec 09, 2018 9:50 pm

I remember reading a report on Magix a while back where the article stated that there some potential future financial concerns for Magix as more than 50% of their customer base were over 45 years of age. I personally haven't come across any particularly youthful Samplitude users. Not to say they don't exist. I have chatted to two blokes a while back who were early to mid 30's and used the platform, but most seem to be 40+.

The reason I bring this up, is hearing. Most people slowly lose the top end of their hearing as they age. As some have pointed out, Samplitude automatically upsamples.

Is it possible that the reason for the impression by some that Samplitude sounds better, is that middle aged users are perhaps hearing the results of the filter cutoff of most DAWs as a percieved fuzzier/nastier hiss? It might be the case that Samplitude's up sampling makes that top end sound slightly smoother to those who are losing hearing in that area?

What I mean by this is people who haven't entirely lost the ability to hear up near the nyquist, but have reduced differential capabilities in this area of the frequency spectrum, may find that the hiss is more prominent when a filter cuttoff is walling against the decay of those sounds? Thus giving them an impression that Samplitude sounds better/clearer/more pristine.

coolbass
KVRer
8 posts since 21 Aug, 2007

Re: The Samplitude Sounds Great Thread

Post Mon Dec 10, 2018 1:15 am

WotEva wrote:
Sun Dec 09, 2018 9:50 pm
I remember reading a report on Magix a while back where the article stated that there some potential future financial concerns for Magix as more than 50% of their customer base were over 45 years of age. I personally haven't come across any particularly youthful Samplitude users. Not to say they don't exist. I have chatted to two blokes a while back who were early to mid 30's and used the platform, but most seem to be 40+.

The reason I bring this up, is hearing. Most people slowly lose the top end of their hearing as they age. As some have pointed out, Samplitude automatically upsamples.

Is it possible that the reason for the impression by some that Samplitude sounds better, is that middle aged users are perhaps hearing the results of the filter cutoff of most DAWs as a percieved fuzzier/nastier hiss? It might be the case that Samplitude's up sampling makes that top end sound slightly smoother to those who are losing hearing in that area?

What I mean by this is people who haven't entirely lost the ability to hear up near the nyquist, but have reduced differential capabilities in this area of the frequency spectrum, may find that the hiss is more prominent when a filter cuttoff is walling against the decay of those sounds? Thus giving them an impression that Samplitude sounds better/clearer/more pristine.
Nonsense.

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