Toontracks & Waves: New Strong-arming Tactics

[uraniumbilly]

Waves and Toontracks seem to be attempting to strong-arm users when/if they wish to upgrade their products. Waves strong-arms with the threat that their plugins may not function as your operating system changes over time. Toontracks strong-arms by way of threatening a discontinued upgrade opportunity. I just received this threat: Superior Drummer: “ONLY 17 DAYS TO UPGRADE TO SUPERIOR DRUMMER 3.” After that period of time there will be, according to my Toontrack emails, no opportunity at all!

I personally will not involve myself with any company that even attempts such a shoddy business practice. I will not upgrade Superior Drummer under the pretense that “The Superior Drummer 3 Upgrade will be discontinued since Superior Drummer 2 is no longer supported.” I’d advise Toontracks to change their strong-arm tactics to some form of benevolence. I mean, after all, I’m the guy with the money. Toontracks, as you stuff my box with emails you should change your language radically. Try this: “Unfortunately we will no longer be supporting Superior Drummer 2. We hope some time in the future you can upgrade to Superior Drummer 3.”

Another happy business practice, the one employed by most all other companies besides Toontracks, is to simply claim, “If you buy (by set date) you will receive ____ price. After (set date) the price will be ______. I'm learning to appreciate benevolent companies.

I have worked in the recording business in four capacities: in a brick and mortar recording studio for music, another b&m for film post production, freelancing, and my own business at home. I’m now a hobbyist who is willingly spending large sums of money on applications such as Apple Logic, and plugins such as those from Toontracks and Waves. While I can’t claim to know what the potential dollars are professional vs hobbyist percentages are, just from my own circle of friends here in the Bay Area and on a number of audio forums, there is a huge number of hobbyists paying a lot of money for apps and plugins. Personally, I see myself moving on from Waves and Toontracks. There are other companies with benevolent business practices that I prefer giving my money to.

From what I can tell there are at two main types of app/plugin upgrades: those for when an operating system is upgraded, and those for when some form of software fix and/or expansion has taken place. Now, as far as exactly how companies who approach that upgrade with their users, I want to address my experience with three upgrade business models:

1. Free upgrade with operating system change (the extreme of benevolence): Apple Logic Pro X. There was a time when, if memory serves, I paid for a massive upgrade of my Logic Pro. I recall paying for the application and then one upgrade for $200 dollars. That was a long time ago. Now, Apple delivers free OS upgrades and more and more functional expansion of Logic, as well as supports the Logic application with bug fixes. All of this is, for at least the last 5-6 years or so, absolutely free (I realize this business model is pretty unfair since they’re attempting to sell hardware.). However I own the entire suite of Soundtoys and Eventide plugins and they are, like Apple, businesses that have broadened their catalog of plugins, with free upgrades - that has sometimes included new free plugins, but have ALWAYS included free OS upgrades and bug fixes. After 3-4 years, I think I have paid once for an upgrade from Soundtoys and Eventide, but was granted at least one or two free plugins. (I realize Apple is now one of the big evil companies. Please don’t misunderstand my point of benevolence here.)

2. Pay for upgrade. I submit Eventide and Soundtoys as better examples… It functions like this, there’s a notice of upgrade and price for upgrade. Fairly recently I received notice that a plugin from Eventide was upgraded. I paid the $29 and that was that. If I had not upgraded I would have the opportunity in the future to upgrade. Of course we realize how the people at Eventide aren’t assholes.

3. The new strong-arm tactics of Toontracks and Waves (see details above.). For Waves: sell product low, get future revenue streams from so called OS upgrades. For Toontracks: threaten with pay now as there is no future path to upgrade.

There is a huge, and I mean huge glob of money sitting out there in the pocket of hobbyists. If Waves and Toontracks can’t play nice, I will spend my money elsewhere.

[sidrat]

Screw 'em. I'll use the money to cross-grade to BFD... What a shame.

[yehboy1]

I'm confused. Why Does Toontrack want to end SD2 upgrades to SD3? That's a lot of money left on the table from future years of people upgrading.

If, for example, 1,000 people own SD2, and 100 upgrade to SD3 by Dec. 31st, then it misses out on the 900 others who might upgrade in 2019, 2020, etc.

Maybe they did the math and it made sense. Maybe they figured that the number of extra upgrades in December, plus the number of SD2 owners in 2019 and beyond who outright buy SD3 for $400 a pop (versus upgrading for $200 from SD2) is more profitable than the larger number of potential $200 SD3 upgrades in the following years.

My intuition though says it makes more financial sense to keep the SD3 upgrade available.

[The Noodlist]

The market is big enough to pick and choose. I believe some smaller devs have better deals and more respect for their customers.
I'm not into subscriptions and being pushed into upgrading and paying again for a product I already own.
Fair enough, major upgrades a payment is understandable. But not for plain functionality and shelf life, this is a different matter.
I've made the move to smaller devs.

[jens]

Maybe they did the math and it made sense. Maybe they figured that the number of extra upgrades in December, plus the number of SD2 owners in 2019 and beyond who outright buy SD3 for $400 a pop (versus upgrading for $200 from SD2) is more profitable than the larger number of potential $200 SD3 upgrades in the following years.

They will most probably have their statistics. Superior Drummer 3 was released in September 2017. Perhaps it'S the case that most of the users who have not updated yet (more than a year later) never will, except perhaps if they get a little push. The OP can claim all he wants about being such a seasoned pro (albeit I must admit I didn't get the relevance of that bit at all ), wanting to spend large sums, yadda yadda - SD3 is vastly superior to SD2 - so why has he not updated yet? (I for instance did that within the first week - then again I'm not a retired pro though ) Would he ever, under any circumstances? IS he really not going to do it now, after receving the "threat"? We don't know and it is completely irrelevant either. I assume though that they know fairly well how their customers behave statistically. And they'll rely on this data. This thread / open letters isn't going to change that.

[uraniumbilly]

The OP can claim all he wants about being such a seasoned pro (albeit I must admit I didn't get the relevance of that bit at all ), wanting to spend large sums, yadda yadda - SD3 is vastly superior to SD2 - so why has he not updated yet? (I for instance did that within the first week - then again I'm not a retired pro though ) Would he ever, under any circumstances? IS he really not going to do it now, after receving the "threat"? We don't know and it is completely irrelevant either. I assume though that they know fairly well how their customers behave statistically. And they'll rely on this data. This thread / open letters isn't going to change that.

If someone new to the industry is scratching his head and saying he's never seen this before, it doesn't really hold much weight. The only reason I chose to discuss my background is because I'm not new to this stuff and I've never seen anything like this. I'm embarrassed that wasn't clear.

I was definitely hoping to upgrade SD3 with a price more oriented toward the hobbyist - like maybe a Black Friday thing.

I don't know if grumbling and refusing to go along with the $$ matters. You might be right. Maybe it makes no difference. I suspect my complaint will have little effect on the audio industry.

[jens]

What I meant is that your individual position, habit and action/reaction in regards to this is irrelevant as long as they know what the majority of customers is going to do. They've been around for a while - they'll have their data.

I know the waiting and hoping for a better price - but I only do that with stuff I'm not really using much anyway and wouldn't update at its normal upgrade price. I use SD on every project though - okay, I also have Addictive Drummer with numerous Addpacks and while it was SD2 I used both of them by about the same amount - that changed though when SD3 was released. I couldn't imagine going back to SD2 so I'd have punished myself by not updating immediately.