u-he Hive 1.2 - free update - adds wavetables and more

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
keel
KVRian
734 posts since 27 Oct, 2004 from Inside the kick drum

Post Sun Dec 16, 2018 1:22 am

Well, I just bought Hive and I don't want to troll or anything, but I also think that Hive supesaw sounds little weird. Not like in Sylenth or Viper. Weaker or something. I don't know how to explain it, it just sounds, well not so good. But I like Hive a lot and I will keep using Sylenth for supersaw's and use Hive to other things. I think Hive sounds smooth and will sit on the mix without a lot of EQ'ing. It is not "aggressive" synth.

I also tested Diva and I find that Diva's digital osc supersaw sounds much better than Hive's supersaw. Urs, add Diva's supersaw mode to Hive with that stereo spread thing what Diva doesn't have and Hive is a winner for sure! :)

recursive one
KVRAF
3847 posts since 7 Feb, 2013

Re: u-he Hive 1.2 - free update - adds wavetables and more

Post Sun Dec 16, 2018 1:41 am

pdxindy wrote:
Sat Dec 15, 2018 5:31 pm
snigelx wrote:
Sat Dec 15, 2018 4:24 pm
I am genuinely curious. I am not trying to be facetious. I understand your concern if this was a single OSC synth, but it is not.
No need to be curious. Fluffy is an anti u-he troll. He does not have the slightest interest in honest conversation. He likes to pretend otherwise, but there is a long track record there. He regularly contradicts himself from thread to thread. He has stated more than once his disinterest in Hive. There is nothing genuine for you to respond to.
I don't think he is a troll, he explains exactly what he doesn't like and provides audio examples. This is what some other people (myself inlcuded) fail to do when they say "this is not fat enough, that is not snappy enough, etc".

One thing i learned in a hard way is that when you don't like how this or that synth does this or that type of sounds you are better off using other synths. The developer most probably wanted it to sound this exact way and you have very little chances to talk them into changing the sound of their synth according to your tastes anyway.
You may think you can fly ... but you better not try

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martinjuenke
KVRAF
2987 posts since 28 Dec, 2015 from Germany

Re: u-he Hive 1.2 - free update - adds wavetables and more

Post Sun Dec 16, 2018 1:50 am

All these „I don‘t like its sound“ or similar anti-minded opinion based comments are useless, egocentric and annoying. All these smart alecks should stay in the threads of plugins they like. That would bring peace on KVR earth.

Flowing atmospheric music
http://www.sonoryth.bandcamp.com/music

fgimian
KVRAF
2456 posts since 14 Jul, 2005 from Australia

Re: u-he Hive 1.2 - free update - adds wavetables and more

Post Sun Dec 16, 2018 2:09 am

I'm absolutely addicted to this update. Just a little thing I discovered which I wanted to ask about.

1. Start an init preset
2. Enable the Delay effect, set to Stereo and set one channel to 1/4 and one channel to 1/8D
3. Set feedback near 100% and dial in a lot of Wet signal
4. Play one note and listen for the feedback decaying

Notice that over time, the delay actually goes out sync between channels.

I can reproduce this in both the AU and VST versions in Logic and Cubase respectively.

Any ideas?
Fotis

chk071
KVRAF
18527 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany

Re: u-he Hive 1.2 - free update - adds wavetables and more

Post Sun Dec 16, 2018 2:16 am

martinjuenke wrote:
Sun Dec 16, 2018 1:50 am
All these „I don‘t like its sound“ or similar anti-minded opinion based comments are useless, egocentric and annoying. All these smart alecks should stay in the threads of plugins they like. That would bring peace on KVR earth.
Another option would be that the fans would stop being so easily insulted, when some people state a different opinion to theirs. I think that people raise some valid points here.

User avatar
bftucker
KVRian
1107 posts since 30 Apr, 2004 from Louisville, KY

Re: u-he Hive 1.2 - free update - adds wavetables and more

Post Sun Dec 16, 2018 2:39 am

Congratulations to U-He! For the first time ever, a fantastic software synthesizer wins the prestigious

FLS GOLD SEAL of Disapproval


for A Second Time!

You know it must be good!
:wink:
바보

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Urs
u-he
23208 posts since 8 Aug, 2002 from Berlin

Re: u-he Hive 1.2 - free update - adds wavetables and more

Post Sun Dec 16, 2018 2:47 am

fluffy_little_something wrote:
Sat Dec 15, 2018 8:50 pm
Urs wrote:
Sat Dec 15, 2018 5:44 pm
I bet he knows very well how to "unlock" the phase of the sub osc in Hive. He knows a lot about Hive. More than most of our own employees.

*sigh* not sure why I even bother...
Constant -> Sub Tune?
It is a bit clumsy, why no detune knob for an important control? The GUI is so big and there is a lot of empty space left.
The existing Detune knob seems to act on both main and sub the same way in equal mode. So, basically it only helps when using both oscillator sections.
Why would you need to waste a ModMatrix slot for something that has a knob? There *is* a knob for that, and it's a high resolution parameter like any other.

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Urs
u-he
23208 posts since 8 Aug, 2002 from Berlin

Re: u-he Hive 1.2 - free update - adds wavetables and more

Post Sun Dec 16, 2018 3:07 am

keel wrote:
Sun Dec 16, 2018 1:22 am
Well, I just bought Hive and I don't want to troll or anything, but I also think that Hive supesaw sounds little weird.
Have you tried the different engines (normal/clean/dirty)? If they all sound "the same kind of weird" to you, then it isn't the supersaw itself.

I will say something about this topic. How many synths out there let you change the number of unison oscillators *without* changing the perceived loudness? Have you tried this in Hive and have you wondered "oh, how did they do this?", likewise, how many synth do you know where changing oscillator unison voices does not affect the perceived width and average detune? - There's a lot more tech and research in Hive than meets the eye. It's stuff we could have written papers about, we could have made Supersaw paper-worthy. It makes me cringe when someone suggests that utterly naive implementations somehow magically sound "better".

Nevermind, here's what I think: I believe that, to many people, oscillator unison sounds "better" if raising the number of oscillators also raises the volume. Of course it does. Louder is commonly perceived as better. But that again is a fallacy, because in the mix it doesn't matter. So how can you compare your oscillator unison setting when there's a change in volume? Simple, you can't really - volume beats mudd. From all synths I tested, you can only do that in Hive. And that's why we did it. Ok, it takes away the effect of "oh, this sounds better", but it makes for a faster and a lot more professional workflow.

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Urs
u-he
23208 posts since 8 Aug, 2002 from Berlin

Re: u-he Hive 1.2 - free update - adds wavetables and more

Post Sun Dec 16, 2018 3:27 am

recursive one wrote:
Sun Dec 16, 2018 1:41 am
provides audio examples.
To clarify: He provided an example I did not need to listen to. From the description I knew what he did wrong. The synth is designed to behave that way. It's not a bug or a flaw. It adds options. The sound he desires (Sylenth example) is exactly reproducible in Hive, with fewer mouse clicks from the init patch.

However, in order to save parameters in Hive, we had to give some parameters more powerful roles than, say, in Sylenth.

If something sounds odd to someone, there's a good chance that it isn't a bug, but a fix for a flaw we perceived elsewhere. The phase relation between main and sub oscillator is for instance inspired by the Juno 60 which has a "50% phase offset" kind of relation. This just cancels out fewer harmonics and sounds a lot richer than the naive "no phase offset" relation found in most other synths. Which lends itself to a richer Supersaw sound.

As such, this isn't about what it is. It is about someone picking specific features which were deliberately implemented the way they are, and trying to exposing them as flaws. They are flaws in his mind because they pose differences to the synthesizer he is used to. However, from my perspective, we find latter flawed and we implemented a better alternative in Hive.

Over the years we had probably 40 or more of these posts by this specific person. Deliberate or not, to me it has become borderline trolling and the hours I spent clarifying things have cost me much more than a lost sale. I just really think I'd have a better life without this person "interested" in our products.

Elektronisch
KVRAF
2669 posts since 3 Feb, 2010

Re: u-he Hive 1.2 - free update - adds wavetables and more

Post Sun Dec 16, 2018 3:40 am

HcDoom wrote:
Sat Dec 15, 2018 5:20 am
Great update, but I still think the weakest side of Hive is supersaw/hypersaw. You cant make agressive heavily detuned typical hardstyle leads with it, the sound misses something. Plus release on supersaw sounds a bit weird, plastic like. Spire and Dune shine at those type of sounds.
Dont want to sound harsh, but there is a saying "bad dancer blames his balls".

Hive is great for hardstyle sounds :wink:

HcDoom
KVRian
929 posts since 18 Feb, 2012

Re: u-he Hive 1.2 - free update - adds wavetables and more

Post Sun Dec 16, 2018 4:41 am

Ok, than if you guys are such experts, pls, make me an typical modern ultra aggressive detuned hypersaw like rawstyle/hardstyle lead...with Hive. No external effects, pure Hive. Than post a preview here. Thank you! Pls, enlighten me. Play couple of chords as well...and no reverb/delay.

chk071
KVRAF
18527 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany

Re: u-he Hive 1.2 - free update - adds wavetables and more

Post Sun Dec 16, 2018 4:47 am

If the Hive supersaw would be so famous, it would be much more popular among EDM producers, wouldn't you think? Don't get me wrong, i'm sure Hive is a great synth for the people who dig its sound. Again, like i already mentioned in other threads, where people come up with the "every synth can do everything" argument, there isn't a jack of all trades super synth, which is good for everything. I think Spire is great for VA, Virus like sounds e.g. But, it's surely not as great for sounds you can do with dedicated analog modelling synths like Monark, Diva, or Legend. It does VA very good, but, for sounds where you rely on a nice analog resonance behavior, it just won't be as good.

epiphaneia
KVRian
600 posts since 29 May, 2011 from Germany

Re: u-he Hive 1.2 - free update - adds wavetables and more

Post Sun Dec 16, 2018 5:09 am

chk071 wrote:
Sun Dec 16, 2018 4:47 am
If the Hive supersaw would be so famous, it would be much more popular among EDM producers, wouldn't you think?
Maybe that´s not so much a question of the sound as much as it is a question of general marketing, a question of the selection of presets (even preset names can be important, like it or not...) and, of course, U-he not doing cheap "I did my latest top 10 hit-lead with THIS synth" endorsements.
Urs wrote:
Sun Dec 16, 2018 3:27 am
To clarify: He provided an example I did not need to listen to. From the description I knew what he did wrong. The synth is designed to behave that way. It's not a bug or a flaw. It adds options. The sound he desires (Sylenth example) is exactly reproducible in Hive, with fewer mouse clicks from the init patch.
Just possibly, Urs, why not answer this question once and for all by commissioning someone to do a "best of supersaw clichés" soundset for Hive, even if you find the thought painful? :phones:

It´s reasonable to say "yeah, more options give you more ways to screw up the sound - maybe you´re better off with a synth with fewer parameters"... but why not just publish a soundset that gives people "templates" on how to achieve the kind of sounds they´re striving for?

chk071
KVRAF
18527 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany

Re: u-he Hive 1.2 - free update - adds wavetables and more

Post Sun Dec 16, 2018 5:16 am

epiphaneia wrote:
Sun Dec 16, 2018 5:09 am
chk071 wrote:
Sun Dec 16, 2018 4:47 am
If the Hive supersaw would be so famous, it would be much more popular among EDM producers, wouldn't you think?
Maybe that´s not so much a question of the sound as much as it is a question of general marketing, a question of the selection of presets (even preset names can be important, like it or not...) and, of course, U-he not doing cheap "I did my latest top 10 hit-lead with THIS synth" endorsements.
Well.. i think it's first and foremost word-of-mouth recommendation. Sylenth1 wasn't really marketed as THE EDM synth from the beginning to my knowledge. The only "big player" i know of which uses/used Hive is The Thrillseekers. Me thinks Hive's target audience is rather the typical u-he customer. Which is fair enough, of course.

And, even when you heavily market your synth as a EDM instrument, the market won't immediately jump at you. Best example is Dune 2. Which, again, is a nice synth in its own rights. Not very popular among EDM peeps, though. Take a look at the gazillion of soundsets for Sylenth1, Spire, Massive, or Serum.

fluffy_little_something
KVRAF
12923 posts since 5 Jun, 2012

Re: u-he Hive 1.2 - free update - adds wavetables and more

Post Sun Dec 16, 2018 5:27 am

Urs wrote:
Sun Dec 16, 2018 2:47 am
fluffy_little_something wrote:
Sat Dec 15, 2018 8:50 pm
Urs wrote:
Sat Dec 15, 2018 5:44 pm
I bet he knows very well how to "unlock" the phase of the sub osc in Hive. He knows a lot about Hive. More than most of our own employees.

*sigh* not sure why I even bother...
Constant -> Sub Tune?
It is a bit clumsy, why no detune knob for an important control? The GUI is so big and there is a lot of empty space left.
The existing Detune knob seems to act on both main and sub the same way in equal mode. So, basically it only helps when using both oscillator sections.
Why would you need to waste a ModMatrix slot for something that has a knob? There *is* a knob for that, and it's a high resolution parameter like any other.
I see what you mean. Maybe it would help if you named that knob properly, like Sub Tune instead of Semitone.
And I still don't see how one can set the Sub's width and pan separately from the main...

Since you mention the Juno 60, if I remember correctly it only has a single wave source for economic reasons. From that source all waveforms are derived, thus there is no detune control. Maybe that's also why they gave it that lush chorus :hihi:

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