u-he Hive 1.2 - free update - adds wavetables and more

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
User avatar
Urs
u-he
23255 posts since 8 Aug, 2002 from Berlin

Post Sun Dec 16, 2018 6:52 am

fluffy_little_something wrote:
Sun Dec 16, 2018 6:27 am
I find it odd when I have to use two hands to dial in an odd semitone on a control named semitone :roll:
That's because in most cases you don't have to. That's what a two-layer synth is for. Use shift-drag if you need 4 layers, which is rarely the case.

The decision was based on analysis of many, many presets. By far most presets use oscillator detune to effectively turn two 8x unison oscillators into one 16x unison osc in such situations. But Hive has that out of the box in just one oscillator, hence the Sub is more of a bonus, hence you hardly ever need to touch it.
Yeah, let's send you donations for typing here :roll:
Sorry, couldn't help it after you doubted the effort I'm putting into answering all your essential questions.
Nobody is speaking of a clone. However, the famous standard sounds of hardware synths are the litmus test for soft synths in my view.
I read your question differently, but that's okay, I'll go with the flow. How many such litmus tests have you performed then, and would you share your results?

Would you like to have the honour be the first one to perform the test I suggest in the video below and figure out what kind of interpolation your hardware wavetable synths use?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-eZWQ3UJ4c

(a wav file with the wavetable is linked in the description)

User avatar
Tj Shredder
KVRAF
1869 posts since 6 Jan, 2017 from Outer Space

Re: u-he Hive 1.2 - free update - adds wavetables and more

Post Sun Dec 16, 2018 7:02 am

fluffy_little_something wrote:
Sun Dec 16, 2018 6:27 am
Nobody is speaking of a clone. However, the famous standard sounds of hardware synths are the litmus test for soft synths in my view.
When I grew up with synths it was how good they could mimick a piano. It did not help to value a synth at all, more the contrary those who gave a shit on piano sounds usually have been the more interesting...
If you want to play the standard sounds of hardware synths its covered already by more than too many... Whoever would point me to standards in a synth world would prevent me from even listening to videos not to speak about installing a demo...

User avatar
Urs
u-he
23255 posts since 8 Aug, 2002 from Berlin

Re: u-he Hive 1.2 - free update - adds wavetables and more

Post Sun Dec 16, 2018 7:07 am

Also, let me try a truth sandwich.

When Hive was initially developed, we analysed many oscillator unison algorithms and derived and rated a set of detune laws. We then created a set of goals based on known physical laws, e.g. beating frequency, hall effect, whatsoever. It turned out that many example synths were developed rather naively, possibly without making any such assumptions or goals. But we, seeing what was popular and what wasn't, were able to implement a set of oscillator unison algorithms which are not "good by chance", but good by design.

Some people however doubt that our oscillator unison algorithms are any good. Yet we see no valid evidence for such claim.

But because there is no evidence other than what we know what we did and how we did it, we are sure that the design of our unison algorithms is as good as any design. It is good by design, not one of those which are randomly worse than others.

NothanUmber
KVRist
315 posts since 1 Jul, 2004

Re: u-he Hive 1.2 - free update - adds wavetables and more

Post Sun Dec 16, 2018 7:19 am

pdxindy wrote:
Wed Dec 12, 2018 10:03 am
Urs wrote:
Wed Dec 12, 2018 9:18 am
[*]New Mod Matrix modifiers (Curve, Quantize, Rectify, Slew Limiter)
[*]Pitchbend range now +/−48
[*]New user defined MIDI CC sources replace fixed expression and breath modulation
It should be specifically mentioned that the new user defined MIDI CC sources allows one to select CC#74 as a source which is important for MPE.

That along with the +/-48 pitchbend and the new Mod Matrix modifiers makes Hive a solid MPE synth.

The new Uhm scripts modulate very well and sound great across a wide octave range. Hive now really lends itself to expressive MPE playing.
Thanks for the hint! Yay! Easier to leave the controller at default settings and adjusting the synths to the MPE defaults than reconfiguring the controller for each and every plugin - the first can be stored once and forever, the other needs continuous manual reconfiguration (as the controller cannot know which plugin it is connected to).

A nice detail: MIDI control slew can be changed between slow/fast/none - sound promising for high datarate midi!

Elektronisch
KVRAF
2693 posts since 3 Feb, 2010

Re: u-he Hive 1.2 - free update - adds wavetables and more

Post Sun Dec 16, 2018 7:43 am

HcDoom wrote:
Sun Dec 16, 2018 4:41 am
Ok, than if you guys are such experts, pls, make me an typical modern ultra aggressive detuned hypersaw like rawstyle/hardstyle lead...with Hive. No external effects, pure Hive. Than post a preview here. Thank you! Pls, enlighten me. Play couple of chords as well...and no reverb/delay.
Gimme an example :)

fluffy_little_something
KVRAF
12922 posts since 5 Jun, 2012

Re: u-he Hive 1.2 - free update - adds wavetables and more

Post Sun Dec 16, 2018 7:46 am

Urs wrote:
Sun Dec 16, 2018 6:52 am
fluffy_little_something wrote:
Sun Dec 16, 2018 6:27 am
I find it odd when I have to use two hands to dial in an odd semitone on a control named semitone :roll:
That's because in most cases you don't have to. That's what a two-layer synth is for. Use shift-drag if you need 4 layers, which is rarely the case.

The decision was based on analysis of many, many presets. By far most presets use oscillator detune to effectively turn two 8x unison oscillators into one 16x unison osc in such situations. But Hive has that out of the box in just one oscillator, hence the Sub is more of a bonus, hence you hardly ever need to touch it.
Yeah, let's send you donations for typing here :roll:
Sorry, couldn't help it after you doubted the effort I'm putting into answering all your essential questions.
Nobody is speaking of a clone. However, the famous standard sounds of hardware synths are the litmus test for soft synths in my view.
I read your question differently, but that's okay, I'll go with the flow. How many such litmus tests have you performed then, and would you share your results?

Would you like to have the honour be the first one to perform the test I suggest in the video below and figure out what kind of interpolation your hardware wavetable synths use?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-eZWQ3UJ4c

(a wav file with the wavetable is linked in the description)
So, the question is who is Hive aimed at? EDM or general-purpose VA synth? With pads for instance detuning one osc by 5 or 7 semitones is common practice.
That whole voice stacking mania is not my cup of tea. I hardly ever use more than 1 or 2 waves per oscillator, the only exception being synth basses in order to get close to the FM sound of the DX7 (no idea why that works technically/physically).

I meant hardware analog synths, obviously. I know Hive has WT functionality now, but I still consider it a VA type of synth. So, my litmus test is making old-skool sounds such as brass pads.
I can't comment on WT, no experience, hardly any interest. I know it is very popular these days, but I don't know why, frankly.

User avatar
fmr
KVRAF
8422 posts since 16 Mar, 2003 from Porto - Portugal

Re: u-he Hive 1.2 - free update - adds wavetables and more

Post Sun Dec 16, 2018 7:52 am

OK, two practical questions, to clear the ambient:

1. Why is there a "00 User" folder inside Presets, if all user presets are still saved in UserPresets\Hive?

2. Why is there a "Hive 1.2 Wavetables" folder (empty) if all wavetables are in the "Wavetables" folder? Is this a remnant from the Beta? (judging from the creation date, it seems so).
Fernando (FMR)

User avatar
zvenx
KVRAF
6935 posts since 16 Feb, 2005 from Kingston, Jamaica

Re: u-he Hive 1.2 - free update - adds wavetables and more

Post Sun Dec 16, 2018 8:00 am

Mac or PC?

1. I do not have a 00 User Folder in either, are you sure you didn't create it via the browser?

2. I had a Hive 1.2 Starter Pack I think linked in the Beta here, which indeed had Hive 1.2 Wavetables folder...The released version installer would not have deleted these.... but not sure why yours is empty (I had a probably related issue with some files Wavetables examples disappearing on PC but not Mac).

Maybe remove the two folders you mention and reinstall and see if they are reinstalled.
rsp
sound sculptist

xx JPRacer xx
KVRAF
1984 posts since 25 Jun, 2008 from Montreal, Canada

Re: u-he Hive 1.2 - free update - adds wavetables and more

Post Sun Dec 16, 2018 8:04 am

Urs, oh man I wish I had the patience you have! :hail:

User avatar
sinemotor
KVRist
179 posts since 24 Dec, 2015

Re: u-he Hive 1.2 - free update - adds wavetables and more

Post Sun Dec 16, 2018 8:18 am

The only thing that I find missing in Hive are the Tube and Rectify Distortion FXs just like in Zebra2 and Bazille. It adds some lovely nasty tones to the sound, yum yum!

User avatar
fmr
KVRAF
8422 posts since 16 Mar, 2003 from Porto - Portugal

Re: u-he Hive 1.2 - free update - adds wavetables and more

Post Sun Dec 16, 2018 8:23 am

zvenx wrote:
Sun Dec 16, 2018 8:00 am
Mac or PC?

1. I do not have a 00 User Folder in either, are you sure you didn't create it via the browser?
I am talking of Windows 7 (I also have a Mac, but I am working in Windows 7 right now). I though this was a great idea, but maybe you're right and it was me who had that idea :hihi:

I moved my presets to that folder, but then I created more, and they appeard in UserPresets (again) :(
zvenx wrote:
Sun Dec 16, 2018 8:00 am
2. I had a Hive 1.2 Starter Pack I think linked in the Beta here, which indeed had Hive 1.2 Wavetables folder...The released version installer would not have deleted these.... but not sure why yours is empty (I had a probably related issue with some files Wavetables examples disappearing on PC but not Mac).

Maybe remove the two folders you mention and reinstall and see if they are reinstalled.
rsp
I just removed the Hive 1.2 Wavetables folder, and it seems it isn't missed. It was, most probably, a remnant.

Now, the older wavetables (those that were on the folder "uhm examples"). Anyone knows what are the new names given to them, and where they are? I would love to get rid of duplicates.
Fernando (FMR)

User avatar
Vortifex
KVRian
1119 posts since 1 Sep, 2016

Re: u-he Hive 1.2 - free update - adds wavetables and more

Post Sun Dec 16, 2018 8:25 am

fluffy_little_something wrote:
Sun Dec 16, 2018 7:46 am
So, the question is who is Hive aimed at? EDM or general-purpose VA synth? With pads for instance detuning one osc by 5 or 7 semitones is common practice.
That whole voice stacking mania is not my cup of tea. I hardly ever use more than 1 or 2 waves per oscillator, the only exception being synth basses in order to get close to the FM sound of the DX7 (no idea why that works technically/physically).

I meant hardware analog synths, obviously. I know Hive has WT functionality now, but I still consider it a VA type of synth. So, my litmus test is making old-skool sounds such as brass pads.
I can't comment on WT, no experience, hardly any interest. I know it is very popular these days, but I don't know why, frankly.
Dude, you are relentless. I'm tempted to buy Hive just to reward him for answering your posts.

User avatar
zvenx
KVRAF
6935 posts since 16 Feb, 2005 from Kingston, Jamaica

Re: u-he Hive 1.2 - free update - adds wavetables and more

Post Sun Dec 16, 2018 8:26 am

Afaik they are all on the new Wavetables folder sepaarated by types. But with same names.
I completely removed my Hive 1.2 Wavetable folder and the examples folders.

rsp

Its a mac screenshot but of the Windows hierarchy. Showing where the wavetables are stored.

I also included a screenshot where in Hive settings you set where your presets are saved.
rsp
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Last edited by zvenx on Sun Dec 16, 2018 8:35 am, edited 3 times in total.
sound sculptist

fluffy_little_something
KVRAF
12922 posts since 5 Jun, 2012

Re: u-he Hive 1.2 - free update - adds wavetables and more

Post Sun Dec 16, 2018 8:30 am

Vortifex wrote:
Sun Dec 16, 2018 8:25 am
fluffy_little_something wrote:
Sun Dec 16, 2018 7:46 am
So, the question is who is Hive aimed at? EDM or general-purpose VA synth? With pads for instance detuning one osc by 5 or 7 semitones is common practice.
That whole voice stacking mania is not my cup of tea. I hardly ever use more than 1 or 2 waves per oscillator, the only exception being synth basses in order to get close to the FM sound of the DX7 (no idea why that works technically/physically).

I meant hardware analog synths, obviously. I know Hive has WT functionality now, but I still consider it a VA type of synth. So, my litmus test is making old-skool sounds such as brass pads.
I can't comment on WT, no experience, hardly any interest. I know it is very popular these days, but I don't know why, frankly.
Dude, you are relentless. I'm tempted to buy Hive just to reward him for answering your posts.
Hehe :)
He doesn't have to, in fact I will leave this thread so he won't waste more of his pr€ciou$ time on me :hihi:

User avatar
Urs
u-he
23255 posts since 8 Aug, 2002 from Berlin

Re: u-he Hive 1.2 - free update - adds wavetables and more

Post Sun Dec 16, 2018 8:36 am

fluffy_little_something wrote:
Sun Dec 16, 2018 7:46 am
So, the question is who is Hive aimed at? EDM or general-purpose VA synth?
It's not "aimed" at any particular musical style. It's a synthesizer, it's up to you to do whatever musical style you can fit it into.

If anything, it's aimed at people who want fast results, i.e. those who do not want to get lost in the sophisticated feature set of our other offerings, or who simply don't have the time, motivation and patience to learn something like Zebra or Bazille. Like Diva, but for people who at the same time need a lower CPU footprint and/or who don't need an analogue sounding synth for the task at hand.
With pads for instance detuning one osc by 5 or 7 semitones is common practice.
That whole voice stacking mania is not my cup of tea. I hardly ever use more than 1 or 2 waves per oscillator, the only exception being synth basses in order to get close to the FM sound of the DX7 (no idea why that works technically/physically).
Have you checked the FM piano in Hive? That's wavetables. And the original famous 1980ies DX piano sound wasn't made with a DX-7. It was made with a TX-816 (http://www.vintagesynth.com/yamaha/tx816.php). That is, 8 x DX-7 stacked unison. That's where Hive's spectacularly great unison comes in handy, at a very low CPU footprint.
I meant hardware analog synths, obviously.
Terminology matters! It wasn't obvious to me.
I know Hive has WT functionality now, but I still consider it a VA type of synth. So, my litmus test is making old-skool sounds such as brass pads.
I don't know. You can try. But Hive lends itself more to other sonic territory, such as stereophonic supersaw sounds, crazy modulations and that gorgeous new wavetable stuff.
I can't comment on WT, no experience, hardly any interest. I know it is very popular these days, but I don't know why, frankly.
Then you might not like where this is going. But I'm with you there, I never liked wavetables myself. Until I discovered how to do great sounding ones, and how to do great sounding wavetable playback (hence that video).

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