u-he Hive 1.2 - free update - adds wavetables and more

[Teksonik]

What frivolous ear candy there is

The problem is one man's Ear Candy is another man's Essential Sound.

Factory presets should show off what a synth is capable of when pushed to its limit. In other words what it can do not what it must do.

They can be viewed as a form of product demo.

Of course the Factory library should also provide as wide of range of sounds as possible so that the most people no matter the genre would find them instantly useful. Not an easy task with the alphabet soup of genres we have these days such as EDM and B&D or S&M.

And can we please stop the condescending attitude towards Preset Users ?

Just because some people either don't have the skills or the time to create their own patches it doesn't mean they are lesser human beings. Maybe they just want to make music instead of twiddling their knobs all day.

Somewhere between "I never use Presets" and "I only use Presets" is probably where the thinking musician should reside and that's where I live. I love to make my own patches and usually reach for them first when starting a project since I know what they sound like already but if I find a patch made by someone else musically inspiring I'll use it in a heartbeat without the slightest feeling of guilt or feeling like I'm "cheating".

[vurt]

or even if you choose not to use presets, doesn't mean those who do are phoning it in.
it should be about finding what works for you and not worrying how someone else works.

[Teksonik]

Absolutely.

[Calandria]

I could argue my point but given that it's almost 3am, I'm busy doing other things. There is another aspect I mentioned, and that's the old sequencer section. There's only 16 steps, and whilst expecting another duplicate sequencer would be a leap of faith as Dune 3 has, I would hope that it would be at least extended 32 steps. 16 steps is pretty long in the tooth software wise these days... but alass even Dune 3 has 32.

Maybe, who likes limits for the sake of it? I certainly don't
But anything more than 16 steps would be incredibly painful to edit in Hives very small sequencer window.
Beyond 16 steps users are probably better off in their respective piano rolls unless the preset itself is a showcase?

[Dasheesh]

Thankfully we're pretty strict about presets and playability... not too much earcandy in our factory libs, I think...

i actually think you are correct in that, it's one of the things i appreciate is you leave lots of room for self exploration. I am torn tho, because the old analog emulations i still love because they sound so good. everything you can do with them is already available and done with those units, they are just so musical to play that i keep playing them. I bought pro one.. after i broke down and tried it i was stuck. i knew i would be and avoided it at all costs but resistance was futile in the end. an example of everything already done, but i'm going to play it anyway... and i'm trying to work out the difference between playing presets and samples. i guess you buy different instruments for different purposes, but the newer more "modern" units i buy for new exploration. i don't want them done for me. those old players used to have choices and they each had their own sound. now, everyone has the same sound. i spend 30 yrs learning what i'm doing, and someone who looks prettier with thier shirt off comes along with the same ideas and sounds they didn't work a day for in thier life. everything done for them and nobody can tell the difference because it's all virtual... ugh, i gotta stop i'm going to get worked up... have at it.

[vurt]

"their"

[THE INTRANCER]

I could argue my point but given that it's almost 3am, I'm busy doing other things. There is another aspect I mentioned, and that's the old sequencer section. There's only 16 steps, and whilst expecting another duplicate sequencer would be a leap of faith as Dune 3 has, I would hope that it would be at least extended 32 steps. 16 steps is pretty long in the tooth software wise these days... but alass even Dune 3 has 32.

Maybe, who likes limits for the sake of it? I certainly don't
But anything more than 16 steps would be incredibly painful to edit in Hives very small sequencer window.
Beyond 16 steps users are probably better off in their respective piano rolls unless the preset itself is a showcase?

The simplistic why to solve that issue without doing a complete redesign of the GUI is simply to have a button to toggle between 1 - 16 steps, and 17 - 32 steps. The alternative if there was to be a GUI redesign, would be a relocation of the sequencer section to where the keyboard section is, where there is a huge amount of space to put stuff besides the step sequencer. The hexagon could simply be left to the effects and wavetable displays. (splitting them, one on top, one on the bottom or side to side so you can see and use both at any one time, i.e the Wavetables).

But why 32 steps over 16 ? It's to do with the global tempo of the track and the speed of any step or arpreggiated sequence. My own tracks run at a BPM of around 174. Setting that speed to 1/16th in Hive
and you have less variety of pattern creation to play with and with much faster looping. To not have to do this in the main DAW sequencer every time you create a track saves time. You can recall the sequence patch without faffing around in the piano roll. Having more steps provides greater, programmability. It's akin to comparing a Sinclair ZX81 computer with a 16K memory expansion to that of a Dragon 32 computer....A Commodore 64 level of steps would be great though... as you could have double the notes at half the speed of what one would have at 32 steps.

As for presets, I've over 10,000 of them for HIVE (I didn't pay for any other than what Hive provided as they were free), but every single one of them is restricted to 16 steps. I don't need any more 16 step restricted patches thanks. I don't sit down to make patches, I make patches as part of the music production process in whatever music I create, and if I do select a patch, I strip it down and create something else from it. If I had no patches for an instrument at all, I'd make them myself as I have done for the past 20+ years, with hardware or software.

I have two, 61 key keyboard synthesizers each with the same type of 16 step sequencers and I program them, but I can't chain them in serial to have 32 steps as I'd like.

[pdxindy]

I have two, 61 key keyboard synthesizers each with the same type of 16 step sequencers and I program them, but I can't chain them in serial to have 32 steps as I'd like.

Use a dedicated step sequencer plugin... there are options with 32, 64 and even 128 steps. Plus capabilities like importing midi files, live recording of your own playing, polyphony, etc.

[THE INTRANCER]

I have two, 61 key keyboard synthesizers each with the same type of 16 step sequencers and I program them, but I can't chain them in serial to have 32 steps as I'd like.

Use a dedicated step sequencer plugin... there are options with 32, 64 and even 128 steps. Plus capabilities like importing midi files, live recording of your own playing, polyphony, etc.

That's pretty much besides the point, like crashing a car into a shop window, instead of opening the door with a key.

[vurt]

using the right tool for something is the same as committing a crime?

[PieBerger]

I have two, 61 key keyboard synthesizers each with the same type of 16 step sequencers and I program them, but I can't chain them in serial to have 32 steps as I'd like.

Use a dedicated step sequencer plugin... there are options with 32, 64 and even 128 steps. Plus capabilities like importing midi files, live recording of your own playing, polyphony, etc.

Despite disagreeing with Intrancer's other feature request's, I quite like the idea of a second page for the step sequencer. It's one of my favourite part's on the synth and I do feel that increasing it's range would expand the synth's capabilities without comprising it's workflow or character.

[PieBerger]

A lot of the suggested "enhancements" are just make Hive more like Dune. Why? If you want a synth like Dune, you can just buy and use Dune... Adding features from another synth just because isn't good design imo.

As a counterpoint I've seen people asking for features in Dune 3 that are found in Hive so it's just natural to want the features you like or need.

It's not about making A like B it's about making A and B better.

If you like the core sound of a synth then it's just human nature to want it to do all the things you think are important. It's not "silly" it's simply a show of affection. If we didn't like the synth we wouldn't care if it never got a new feature.

Does Hive need 30 more filters ? No of course not but then it didn't need Wavetable support....

It's a fair counterpoint! The issue is not necessarily with increasing a synth's capabilities per se; Hive did not need a wavetable engine it's true, but additional waveforms were promised since it's release and I'm glad this is how u-he decided to provide access to them. I'm particularly fond of the no nonsense WT interface, the 2-D scanning capabilities and that the creation of wavetables has been left to an environment/process outside of the synth's main interface. This is a good example imo, of enhancing a synth with features found in existing and or competing products, without compromising on core principles.

I feel that attempting to reducing the number of filters in Hive, on a shady technicality, with a view to make a case for increasing their numbers and that they should be implemented in a way that is counter to it's core principles, isn't a request to enhance A in light of B, but rather make A more like B.

[Teksonik]

Many times we see "Synth A doesn't need any more features....except the ones I want".....

Adding more filters wouldn't make Hive any more like Dune since the filters would be different. Adding more wouldn't compromise Hive's core principles any more than Wavetables did.

Like I said Hive doesn't need more filters but if they added more I wouldn't complain any more than I did when they added Wavetables which would have been pretty far down my list of wishes for Hive.

Probably because I'm pretty burned out on WTs in the other synths I own. There is only so much information a short duration sample can contain and after awhile they start sounding the same.

I think it was in this thread where I said I loved Hive before the WTs and wouldn't have been upset if it never got another feature update. But changes were made so I support the changes even though WTs wouldn't be my first choice.

It would be the same for more Filters. Not my first choice but what the heck if they add them why not use them ?

[vurt]

i don't think theres as issue with "requests"
its when those requests become "expectations" that theres a problem.

but the whole "well, looks at synth z, that's got this and this..."
then theres an obvious answer if you need those features

let synth a be a and z be z.
although, i am with you, if features "do" get added, and they enhance the synth, so be it and good news!

and now im rambling, as my meds kick in

[PieBerger]

Many times we see "Synth A doesn't need any more features....except the ones I want".....

Adding more filters wouldn't make Hive any more like Dune since the filters would be different. Adding more wouldn't compromise Hive's core principles any more than Wavetables did.

Like I said Hive doesn't need more filters but if they added more I wouldn't complain any more than I did when they added Wavetables which would have been pretty far down my list of wishes for Hive.

Probably because I'm pretty burned out on WTs in the other synths I own. There is only so much information a short duration sample can contain and after awhile they start sounding the same.

I think it was in this thread where I said I loved Hive before the WTs and wouldn't have been upset if it never got another feature update. But changes were made so I support the changes even though WTs wouldn't be my first choice.

It would be the same for more Filters. Not my first choice but what the heck if they add them why not use them ?

Please re-read my comment. I didn't say more features were a bad thing, just that requests to make synth A more like synth B isn't always the way to go. Wavetables in Hive are great, but even more so is the way in which they are implemented. They didn't just say "hey the market leading WT synth has a graphical editor, so let's thrown one into Hive because reasons". They did their own thing, keeping on piste as far as interface/workflow is concerned. I don't know if the 2-D scanning feature is unique to Hive, but it's not in Serum AFAIW and to me that gives it a huge advantage. I bought the Galbanum Architecture waves to use in Serum but I barely touched them, because I'm not super interested in the tedious job of creating wavetables from single cycles in Serum's editor and the pre-combined tables supplied are way too busy and sound like ass when scanned, with the only way to remedy the issue being spending time in the graphical editor, deleting frames to free up room for morphing frames. In Hive I can load any of these busy tables, set a nice high value for Multitable and then use the Pos and MultiPos knobs to effortlessly scan through the table and find "musical" sweetspots. Edit: in terms of efficient (what Hive is good at), but deep and varied sound design, that beats a complex GUI with tonnes of unnecessary options/distractions any day for me anyway.

Sorry went a bit off-topic there! Case in point, adding cool features that make sense for the synth, with a twist that offers something different than the rest is great, requesting that core part of a synth's identity be replaced with the competition's offering, not so great imo.