Selling VST2 after October 2018: Steinberg agreement
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- KVRer
- 12 posts since 26 Mar, 2012
Hey aciddose, thank you for taking the time to explain that!
https://unevens.net - open source audio plug-ins
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- Banned
- 1646 posts since 4 Aug, 2017
An interesting thread from 2011: https://www.steinberg.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=7382
- KVRAF
- 12554 posts since 7 Dec, 2004
Another short point on copyright: there is a requirement that the work be in part "original" to qualify for copyright protection. For example I can take Beethoven's 9th and add some original elements and the resulting work would be protected. Not only the original elements but the combination with the derived elements would create a new original work.
Protected: rendition of "Tchaikovsky - Dance of the Sugar Plum Fairy"
(in this case the original element is 100% the performance and "sounds", so the recording itself is protected while another synthesized performance even if similar would not be infringing.)
https://soundcloud.com/xhip/megamonopoly
So both would be protected: the same sort of combination of elements even if the combination were from different sources. That stuff is United States case-law and gets pretty complicated due to the large number of cases which sometimes end up somewhat contradictory. If I did a Beethoven dubstep with a specific melody it would mean you couldn't just take some Mozart dubstep and use a similar melody without potentially infringing.
That's the counter-example to demonstrate that unoriginal or derivative works are not protected on their own.
What makes a work "art" is that choice is involved. There are many if not an infinite number of potential ways to express an idea. The idea itself is not protected but the unique and original choices made to render that idea into a concrete medium are protected.
This is why when you do not have a choice to make the work is not protected. For example in programming we have the common "hello world".
Some variations:
We can see that there are a number of equivalent choices available. Due to the fact these are all equivalent they are not to be considered creative expression at all. We could easily replace all the variations with the same method and get identical output.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hobson%27s_choice
Protected: rendition of "Tchaikovsky - Dance of the Sugar Plum Fairy"
(in this case the original element is 100% the performance and "sounds", so the recording itself is protected while another synthesized performance even if similar would not be infringing.)
https://soundcloud.com/xhip/megamonopoly
So both would be protected: the same sort of combination of elements even if the combination were from different sources. That stuff is United States case-law and gets pretty complicated due to the large number of cases which sometimes end up somewhat contradictory. If I did a Beethoven dubstep with a specific melody it would mean you couldn't just take some Mozart dubstep and use a similar melody without potentially infringing.
That's the counter-example to demonstrate that unoriginal or derivative works are not protected on their own.
What makes a work "art" is that choice is involved. There are many if not an infinite number of potential ways to express an idea. The idea itself is not protected but the unique and original choices made to render that idea into a concrete medium are protected.
This is why when you do not have a choice to make the work is not protected. For example in programming we have the common "hello world".
Some variations:
- printf("Hello World!\n");
- puts("helloworld");
- const char *str = "greetings worldo"; for (int i = 0; str(i); i++) { putchar(str(i)); } putchar('\n');
We can see that there are a number of equivalent choices available. Due to the fact these are all equivalent they are not to be considered creative expression at all. We could easily replace all the variations with the same method and get identical output.
- printf("Hello World!\n");
- printf("helloworld\n");
- printf("greetings worldo\n");
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hobson%27s_choice
- printf("Hello world.\n");
- printf("Hello world.\n");
- printf("Hello world.\n");
Free plug-ins for Windows, MacOS and Linux. Xhip Synthesizer v8.0 and Xhip Effects Bundle v6.7.
The coder's credo: We believe our work is neither clever nor difficult; it is done because we thought it would be easy.
Work less; get more done.
The coder's credo: We believe our work is neither clever nor difficult; it is done because we thought it would be easy.
Work less; get more done.
- KVRist
- 382 posts since 28 Nov, 2013 from Germany
Ironically this posted link by Steinberg is likely the best entry point to get the VST2 headers from github if you do not have them. Am I somehow missing the point of DCMA takedowns on git repositories?tony10000 wrote: ↑Sat Dec 15, 2018 7:36 pm Steinberg has issued DCMA takedown notices to everyone who had posted the VST2 SDK on Github: https://github.com/github/dmca/blob/mas ... einberg.md
Passed 303 posts. Next stop: 808.
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- KVRian
- 1265 posts since 9 Sep, 2005 from Oulu, Finland
If you don't have the license signed by Steinberg, you are not allowed to distribute products built with those anyway...So it's pointless to obtain the VST2 header/SDK files (official or reverse engineered) at this point. (Unless you want to risk having to deal with Steinberg via the legal system.)
Last edited by Xenakios on Tue Jan 08, 2019 12:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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- KVRian
- 1265 posts since 9 Sep, 2005 from Oulu, Finland
- KVRian
- 871 posts since 6 Aug, 2005 from England
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- KVRian
- 1265 posts since 9 Sep, 2005 from Oulu, Finland
A competition, who gets it last?
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midi_transmission midi_transmission https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=298730
- KVRian
- 988 posts since 13 Feb, 2013
I always liked Steinberg, but after this my opinion about them is pretty low. I hope that they are aware how people from the outside judge them after this move. You cooperate in 2018. Even Microsoft does it now. Negative advertisement galore.
Really hoping that the VST standard will be overtaken by some other open source format in the near future.
Really hoping that the VST standard will be overtaken by some other open source format in the near future.
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- Banned
- 1646 posts since 4 Aug, 2017
JUCE is working on their new SOUL initiative and that seems promising. For the rest of us, there is always Propellerhead REs!
- Banned
- 5089 posts since 12 Jun, 2001 from Wusik Dot Com
+1midi_transmission wrote: ↑Sat Jan 12, 2019 12:14 am I always liked Steinberg, but after this my opinion about them is pretty low. I hope that they are aware how people from the outside judge them after this move. You cooperate in 2018. Even Microsoft does it now. Negative advertisement galore.
Really hoping that the VST standard will be overtaken by some other open source format in the near future.
- KVRian
- 871 posts since 6 Aug, 2005 from England
++WilliamK wrote: ↑Sat Jan 12, 2019 2:31 pm+1midi_transmission wrote: ↑Sat Jan 12, 2019 12:14 am I always liked Steinberg, but after this my opinion about them is pretty low. I hope that they are aware how people from the outside judge them after this move. You cooperate in 2018. Even Microsoft does it now. Negative advertisement galore.
Really hoping that the VST standard will be overtaken by some other open source format in the near future.
It makes business sense to allow people to use it where they want. Perhaps not to have too many fingers in the pie with open source though.
Dave Hoskins. http://www.quikquak.com
- KVRist
- 323 posts since 19 Jul, 2008
Well, the issue is certainly not the lack of open-source audio plugin standards. http://lv2plug.in/ and https://free-audio.github.io/clap/ are fine, but I bet they haven't even crossed most developers' minds, since the number of users is so low.midi_transmission wrote: ↑Sat Jan 12, 2019 12:14 am Really hoping that the VST standard will be overtaken by some other open source format in the near future.
VCV Rack, the Eurorack simulator