searching for advice on sampler/sampling

Sampler and Sampling discussion (techniques, tips and tricks, etc.)
moshimoshi
KVRist
84 posts since 18 May, 2016

Post Wed Jan 09, 2019 4:51 am

Only thing that does it real time is VP9000 and it definitely has its own 'sound' when doing so, and also only 6-voice poly (3 in stereo). Maybe kyma? Emu E4 series has offline timestretch like many hardware samplers, but this is not what you are looking for. You need to think about the technical reality of what you want. Like someone said above if you want anything like high-quality results you should use Falcon or Kontakt. But even these will have their own 'sound' when doing this. It's fundamentally bending physics and is not natural. It will also use a very high amount of cpu

free_hawk_03
KVRist
30 posts since 22 Nov, 2007

Re: searching for advice on sampler/sampling

Post Thu Jan 10, 2019 10:56 am

Yes i know..
I think Roland Vsynth does what i want... i don't want the sample to be perfectly pitched and timestretched like the original synth would do (if i sample a moog voyager for ex)
But it hast to stay musical , good sounding
Vsynth has variphrase algoritm like vp9000.

I don't see much software alternatives, indeed if they do it's not good enough to stay musical or demands so much cpu you get latency all over

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fmr
KVRAF
8421 posts since 16 Mar, 2003 from Porto - Portugal

Re: searching for advice on sampler/sampling

Post Thu Jan 10, 2019 11:16 am

free_hawk_03 wrote:
Thu Jan 10, 2019 10:56 am
I don't see much software alternatives, indeed if they do it's not good enough to stay musical or demands so much cpu you get latency all over
They demand more CPU power, but the results are good enough to stay musical (I'm talking about Falcon and HALion which are the best ones, and the ones where I tried those features). There also isn't any special latency (the latency you have is the same one you get with any other preset).
Fernando (FMR)

free_hawk_03
KVRist
30 posts since 22 Nov, 2007

Re: searching for advice on sampler/sampling

Post Fri Jan 11, 2019 6:29 am

No i think software samplers are without doubt the best for samplepacks you can buy or download wich are sampled in different layers and stuff like that.. you can't beat that with own samples;
But what i want is experimental, I don't want do sample my grand piano so that it is sounding like the real piano.
And i like variphrase of the vsynth, it seems to do what i want, and i don't see much software samplers doing the same.

moshimoshi
KVRist
84 posts since 18 May, 2016

Re: searching for advice on sampler/sampling

Post Fri Jan 11, 2019 8:24 am

I can only talk about the VP9000 but it's a very unique sound, the time control especially is a lot of fun for stretching/'freezing' sounds. It's a very weird sampler with a very weird OS, in fact I don't really think it's traditional sampling at all, maybe closer to granular/resynthesis? It doesn't even have a per-voice filter. But it's a very unique sound. Not sure how it's implemented in the v-synth but no doubt it will be a lot of fun.

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fmr
KVRAF
8421 posts since 16 Mar, 2003 from Porto - Portugal

Re: searching for advice on sampler/sampling

Post Fri Jan 11, 2019 11:08 am

free_hawk_03 wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 6:29 am
No i think software samplers are without doubt the best for samplepacks you can buy or download wich are sampled in different layers and stuff like that.. you can't beat that with own samples;
But what i want is experimental, I don't want do sample my grand piano so that it is sounding like the real piano.
And i like variphrase of the vsynth, it seems to do what i want, and i don't see much software samplers doing the same.
If you like VP9000 then go for it. But don't be fooled - Falcon and HALion are not "the best for samplepacks you can buy or download wich are sampled in different layers and stuff like that...". That's Kontakt.

Sure, they also have some sample packs (nothing comparable to Kontakt, though), but where Falcon and HALion really excel is exactly in the field of "experimental sampling", combining their many forms of synthesis, especially when we talk about granular synthesis.
Fernando (FMR)

free_hawk_03
KVRist
30 posts since 22 Nov, 2007

Re: searching for advice on sampler/sampling

Post Mon Jan 14, 2019 8:10 am

Double post???

I think the octatrack can also do what i want, sampling with pitch shifting without time stretching .. and it does a rather good job at it

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ChamomileShark
KVRian
1393 posts since 12 May, 2004 from Oxford, UK

Re: searching for advice on sampler/sampling

Post Mon Jan 14, 2019 8:40 am

I use Halion 6 to do this. I have a project in Cubase with MIDI for each note in series - I then record my synth and then run it into Halion 6 using it's record function. Halion 6 maps each note to the appropriate key and does all the topping and tailing. I simply set up Halion appropriately, hit play in Cubase and go off to make a cup of tea. At the end of it I have a fully playable set of synth samples. I generally don't do any stretching because the hardware synths range is sufficient.

Re playing them polyphonically - that can be a problem. Experience with analogue monosynths when made polyphonic they end up being just "too much".

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ChamomileShark
KVRian
1393 posts since 12 May, 2004 from Oxford, UK

Re: searching for advice on sampler/sampling

Post Mon Jan 14, 2019 8:41 am

I use Halion 6 to do this. I have a project in Cubase with MIDI for each note in series - I then record my synth and then run it into Halion 6 using it's record function. Halion 6 maps each note to the appropriate key and does all the topping and tailing. I simply set up Halion appropriately, hit play in Cubase and go off to make a cup of tea. At the end of it I have a fully playable set of synth samples. I'm sure you can do the same in Bitwig if it supports side chain (or there may be other ways of doing it). I generally don't do any stretching because the hardware synths range is sufficient.

Re playing them polyphonically - that can be a problem. Experience with analogue monosynths when made polyphonic they end up being just "too much".

moshimoshi
KVRist
84 posts since 18 May, 2016

Re: searching for advice on sampler/sampling

Post Fri Jan 18, 2019 6:24 am

I started reading the manual for the MPC-X recently and it seems like it can do this (real-time stretch to keep length constant when pitching). I don't know for sure if it works in this way but maybe you should look into it. Seems like a great machine in general (I'm starting to want one very much).

free_hawk_03
KVRist
30 posts since 22 Nov, 2007

Re: searching for advice on sampler/sampling

Post Tue Jan 22, 2019 1:16 pm

Wow that's 2000€ for the mpc X :-)

It certainly stretches my wallet

Shabdahbriah
KVRAF
4916 posts since 19 Jun, 2008 from Seattle

Re: searching for advice on sampler/sampling

Post Tue Jan 22, 2019 2:38 pm

free_hawk_03 wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 10:42 am
I am looking for a system (hard or software) that can do the following.
- Sampling sounds from my hardware synths.
- Do a pitch shift without speeding up or slowing down the sample.
- Tweaking the sample in real time with effects/ADSR/LFO/ENV/FILTERS
- playing at least 64 voices with these samples

Can anyone advise me on this?

Would for ex an akaiS6000 be a good choice to do that?
Or any software VST that is made to do this?

My daw is bitwig 2.4 and i have al lot of analog gear, most of them are monophonic and via sampling i would be able to make the sounds polyphonic?

Warm regards
From your responses made to the responses/recommendations, I'm getting the impression (please correct me if I'm wrong) that you aren't really after a "sampler" in the context it is generally understood to be in this context, which is to build a 'new' instrument with the samples (recordings of your hardware's sounds), which 'then' does all of this processing after you have sampled it/them, but an instrument/sampler/processor which simply modifies (according to the above criteria) the sounds (keys) you are playing from your hardware, in real-time, so you can record 'that' as you do so?

just trying to sort out what exactly you are going for.
Perception is the ultimate "reality" ~ but not, the ultimate Truth.

free_hawk_03
KVRist
30 posts since 22 Nov, 2007

Re: searching for advice on sampler/sampling

Post Fri Jan 25, 2019 4:25 am

Yes i think you are right about that.

I have a roland v-synth xt now and it more or less does what i wanted :-)
I also have a Akai S6000, wich is simply a sampler. although it also can do pitch shift, but it does not do that in real time, so to get the same result it's a bit time consuming

Anyway, i just wanted to hear you ideas about it, so that maybe i could find even better solutions

Thnx anyway :-)

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