Do I “need” analog synths?

Anything about hardware musical instruments.
JCJR
KVRAF
2557 posts since 17 Apr, 2005 from S.E. TN

Post Fri Jan 18, 2019 1:13 pm

vurt wrote:
Fri Jan 18, 2019 8:42 am
cant believe my guitar rig just got slated :o
:lol:

/loves his bakealite danny and shite fuzzboxes :love:
I would like to have a danelectro. They sound great for certain tones. I still have a 1960's univox super fuzz but it is a one trick pony because even in its least-distorted setting, if you happen to play more than one string at a time on the guitar, it sounds like digital ring modulation. :)

Horses for courses and of course a matter of taste. No right or wrong taste but the tonal distinction I was trying to describe something like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKaK4xojQ3Q

Versus Gibson thru a Marshal stack turned to 11. The only time I saw Cream in 1968 IIRC he was playing a Flying V at one point and an SG at another, but there may have been an Explorer onstage as well. For the impatient the sonic illustration really kicks in about 1:28.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MF5fQXVZGug

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vurt
addled muppet weed
41760 posts since 26 Jan, 2003 from through the looking glass

Re: Do I “need” analog synths?

Post Fri Jan 18, 2019 1:17 pm

oh, yeah, for sure, i love the sg through a modern fuzz too 8)

basically i love destroyed tones :lol:

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toonertik
KVRian
828 posts since 15 Feb, 2017 from a worn out vinyl groove

Re: Do I “need” analog synths?

Post Fri Jan 18, 2019 1:18 pm

^^^ cream :tu:
btw 2 things...
thanx for posting the x_roads, I've not heard that in a long time..
and second... someone here who I know is older that me here
I was just 14 then and only allowed to go see the Beatles... FFS!!!!!

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jacqueslacouth
KVRian
909 posts since 18 Nov, 2004

Re: Do I “need” analog synths?

Post Fri Jan 18, 2019 1:27 pm

vurt wrote:
Fri Jan 18, 2019 1:03 pm
that's the updated rene you have?
so you can do different sequences i believe?
Ugh, I absolutely loathed the René. The touch sensors were so flakey in use. I believe it may be something to do with not having the correct level of moistness on my paws, but it was basically unusable for me.

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toonertik
KVRian
828 posts since 15 Feb, 2017 from a worn out vinyl groove

Re: Do I “need” analog synths?

Post Fri Jan 18, 2019 1:29 pm

hmmm... is that sweaty palm syndrom?
or not enough moisture>> :P

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pekbro
KVRAF
2410 posts since 29 Sep, 2010 from Maui

Re: Do I “need” analog synths?

Post Fri Jan 18, 2019 1:36 pm

vurt wrote:
Fri Jan 18, 2019 1:03 pm
that's the updated rene you have?
so you can do different sequences i believe?
Yeah that is the new version, honestly I didnt really pay any attention to the changes
between the two. I found it pretty straight forward, so I haven't even looked at the manual
for it. :oops:

I assume so about the sequences, it's like no other sequencer I've encountered, tbh
I couldn't tell you whether its doing different sequences or not. I can say the patterns
it generates are amazing, and imho it's fuckin bitchen :tu:

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justin3am
KVRAF
10630 posts since 7 May, 2006 from Southern California

Re: Do I “need” analog synths?

Post Fri Jan 18, 2019 1:44 pm

jacqueslacouth wrote:
Fri Jan 18, 2019 1:27 pm
vurt wrote:
Fri Jan 18, 2019 1:03 pm
that's the updated rene you have?
so you can do different sequences i believe?
Ugh, I absolutely loathed the René. The touch sensors were so flakey in use. I believe it may be something to do with not having the correct level of moistness on my paws, but it was basically unusable for me.
I have both the old and new version. The original Rene has touch sensitivity issues when the case power is not properly grounded or if there is too much current bleeding into the 0v line.
Rene v2 has no such issues.

Yes, indeed, Rene V2 has 3 separate channels but only one operates like the original (where X and Y coordinates are addressed separately) but then it also have the 'C' axis for states which is essentially like having 4 banks of 16 patterns 4 all three sequencer channels.

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pekbro
KVRAF
2410 posts since 29 Sep, 2010 from Maui

Re: Do I “need” analog synths?

Post Fri Jan 18, 2019 2:39 pm

Here have a listen to the Rene 2, in my latest experiment (last night) and the last I will be doing
with only the 20 patch cables included with the synth :D

https://soundcloud.com/user-663163390/m ... ian-test-2

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Jace-BeOS
KVRAF
4936 posts since 7 Jan, 2005 from Corporate States of America

Re: Do I “need” analog synths?

Post Fri Jan 18, 2019 3:20 pm

pekbro wrote:
Fri Jan 18, 2019 12:31 pm
*Actually, the pic I posted here of it shows it operating with one output connected to another. :oops:

Image
:hihi:

What does the hardware do when that happens? Do you get any indicator that anything is wrong? If it’s designed to not blow up, there’s no smoke signal... (I once blew up a RAM chip due to putting it into a motherboard backwards, back when RAM was installed as individual IC chips :oops:)

Neat looking gadget. I bet that’s at least as expensive as the four devices I’m considering. I absolutely refuse to go down the rabbit hole of true modular, but I sure would play with the stuff if someone donated.
- dysamoria.com
my music @ SoundCloud

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pekbro
KVRAF
2410 posts since 29 Sep, 2010 from Maui

Re: Do I “need” analog synths?

Post Fri Jan 18, 2019 3:28 pm

No warnings, the modules just don't respond with the wrong type of input. In that pic,
the oscillator audio output, is routed into a cv output from the sequencer.

Yeah it was expensive, you could get it used for a lot less. I wanted a new customized
one so I bought it direct. I also wanted to maximize my support of Make Noise and Tom Erbe.
One definitely, wouldn't have to spend quite so much if one desired. :)

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Jace-BeOS
KVRAF
4936 posts since 7 Jan, 2005 from Corporate States of America

Re: Do I “need” analog synths?

Post Fri Jan 18, 2019 3:51 pm

According to people reading the manuals for the Behringer Model D, it specifically states that exceeding the voltages listed for the modular connections could damage the unit. These voltages are much lower than the Behringer Neutron. Seems that, by inference, the manual says not to do what I was thinking of doing. But then, other people have been pointing out errors in the manuals of both... sigh.

I put a request in to my Sweetwater sales engineer. He called me back a little while ago to let me know he’d put requests into the Behringer and Korg reps to see what the official responses are. I’m very curious what those will be.
- dysamoria.com
my music @ SoundCloud

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BONES
GRRRRRRR!
7709 posts since 14 Jun, 2001 from Somewhere else, on principle

Re: Do I “need” analog synths?

Post Fri Jan 18, 2019 5:42 pm

Jace-BeOS wrote:
Wed Dec 12, 2018 8:02 pm
Digital synths (and many portable analog synths!) have been like this since day one of MIDI. It’s like people don’t care (I didn’t grasp it until a few years ago). Those who do care are already(?) playing with analog synths and handling them like you’d do any live performance device (record the audio into the DAW and move on).
Or they do everything ITB so they don't have to deal with MIDI at all. Life is built on compromises, you just have to work our which ones are easier to live with.

I have never had any issues with zipper noise when using my controllers or digital hardware synths so I did a bit of a search, to see if it was real or imagined and found this interesting forum thread - https://yamahamusicians.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5796

So maybe the problems you're having aren't directly related to MIDI being 8 bit, which nobody ever complained about 25 years ago, maybe something else is quantising your MIDI (Trinity used to do that if your settings weren't right) or interfering with it?
SJ_Digriz wrote:
Wed Dec 12, 2018 9:11 pm
Yes, they have much more tactile control that has an immediacy that isn't currently possible with VSTi ...
There is no reason that turning a virtual knob with your mouse should be any less tactile than turning a physical knob. You do both things with your hand and any differences exist mostly in your head.
I prefer to PLAY external gear because it is a lot more personal and direct feeling.
I used to think that until I actually hooked up a controller and started playing my VSTi. After that I was happy to play either. What I have noticed a lot, though, is that most VSTi presets do a lousy job of basic expressiveness. e.g. Velocity is off by default in DUNE so unless the sound designer thinks to go looking for it, DUNE is dull and lifeless when you try and play it. Barely half the factory presets have velocity mod enabled and plenty more have such low values that it may as well be switched off. I've noticed the same with other VSTI, too. But a well designed patch for any half-decent VSTi will be just as lively when played with a controller as any hardware synth.
NOVAkILL 3.0 : Acer Switch5 (Core i5, 8GB RAM, Win10), Yamaha AG06, Orion 64 bit, Roli Seaboard Rise 25, Ultranova, Rocket, Pulse 2, Analog Keys, MicroMonsta, Uno.

lfm
KVRAF
4948 posts since 22 Jan, 2005 from Sweden

Re: Do I “need” analog synths?

Post Sat Jan 19, 2019 3:04 am

pekbro wrote:
Fri Jan 18, 2019 3:28 pm
No warnings, the modules just don't respond with the wrong type of input. In that pic,
the oscillator audio output, is routed into a cv output from the sequencer.

Yeah it was expensive, you could get it used for a lot less. I wanted a new customized
one so I bought it direct. I also wanted to maximize my support of Make Noise and Tom Erbe.
One definitely, wouldn't have to spend quite so much if one desired. :)
But isn't it a bit of sloppy design in todays electronics to break because of simple errors.

Thinking making different shape of cable ends and similar as one precaution and if people use that it would be obvious that square shape goes into square shape, not round shape and similar.

In the 60's when hifi amps were becoming every households obvious units - if you didn't connect a speaker transistor power stage blew up. Rather common.

But todays hifi amps does not do that - good design.

Even guitar tube amps, which need a load - are protected today and rare to blow up because of missing speakers.

This CV stuff seems not to have an overall understanding and creating a universal standard to stick to among manufacturers. Probably struck by popularity this has gained with modular stuff.

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egbert101
KVRAF
2289 posts since 13 Jun, 2014

Re: Do I “need” analog synths?

Post Sat Jan 19, 2019 4:20 am

I heard that the Behringer Model D goes out of a tune a lot (because of the VCOs) so that tends to be put me off getting one, but I guess that goes with the territory. I do plan on getting a Moog Grandmother, so I assume I'll face similar problems.
<list all your stupid gear here>

lfm
KVRAF
4948 posts since 22 Jan, 2005 from Sweden

Re: Do I “need” analog synths?

Post Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:42 am

BONES wrote:
Fri Jan 18, 2019 5:42 pm
I prefer to PLAY external gear because it is a lot more personal and direct feeling.
I used to think that until I actually hooked up a controller and started playing my VSTi. After that I was happy to play either. What I have noticed a lot, though, is that most VSTi presets do a lousy job of basic expressiveness. e.g. Velocity is off by default in DUNE so unless the sound designer thinks to go looking for it, DUNE is dull and lifeless when you try and play it. Barely half the factory presets have velocity mod enabled and plenty more have such low values that it may as well be switched off. I've noticed the same with other VSTI, too. But a well designed patch for any half-decent VSTi will be just as lively when played with a controller as any hardware synth.
Even
- if you happend to have the daw computer running
- if you happend to have the daw running
- if you happend to have the plugin open
- if you have a proper controller with panel overlay for that synth in place

Then you start to have similar use as hardware synth.

But it still does not compare to just hit power button on hardware and sit and fool around a bit feeling like it at any time.

I tried with B4/B4 II plugin and UC-33 controller with panel overlay for B4.
- Nah, not really there

So went Hammond XK-3c - and there is no comparison in convenience or sound for that matter. And it gets played a lot more.

It went the same way with digital piano and a couple of more synths and modules. It just suites my personality and relationship with the instruments.

But guess it depends - I don't have daw computer running all the time. So for any given moment threshold is a couple of minutes starting up a computer and the rest - compared to just press a button what is here right in front of me.

Waiting for things on the stove to be ready for lunch - I just sit down a play a bit.

And with piano in particular, you have proper weighted keys when you play, and for synths and organ you have keys suitable for those. For Master keyboard you kind of have to choose a preference. Fully weighed keys for synths or organ is not so nice.

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