MSoundFactory concept & template round #3

[Chandlerhimself]

One this I noticed it that the super-saw preset does have info about Modwheel etc, but you can't see it. I assumed it would come up when you pressed he info button(in the bottom left), but nothing happens. I think this is a bug.

[MeldaProduction]

It's actually changing the tremolo on the Generator page . Does it work? (here it does)

[Chandlerhimself]

It's actually changing the tremolo on the Generator page . Does it work? (here it does)

It does. I like the tremolo effect, it could be useful for future bass.

I was shocked when I found out that you could do polyphonic glides. I didn't even think to try it because I thought it was impossible.

I also just realized the info for the devices is in the "?" on the top right It seems to be working well and it should be enough to let people know how everything works. It seems everything is fine, I just didn't know where to look.

[_al_]

what the hell is this thing? a sampler?

It's everything!

No seriously though, it is a modular synth. Right now we have FM, Additive, Modal FIlter, String and Resonator, Wavetable, 32 voice Unison (for everything!), Loads of PerVoice FX, Audio rate modulation, the list goes on and on.
Also planned is Granular, Spectral, TurboFilter, Sampler.

hmm ok... i thought MPowersynth was gonna be the supersynth, but hey, this sounds good. it would be great if we can create a complex synth/sample based sound, and then bounce that down as a single granular wavetable (if granular wavetable is actually a thing. well you know where im going, anyway)

[dmbaer]

My first instrument is near enough to finished that I thought it was time I figured out how to save it as a device. I found the "Save instrument" (or is it "Save Device"? Don't recall) button in the upper bar. Upon clicking it and entering a a name, all I get is a message "Cannot find path to whatever.minstrument" or something like that. I am saving into a category with nothing else present. For some reason (because I started with it probably) I see "Super Saw" in the title bar, but this is not Super Saw. So, I'm totally stuck. Suggestions?

Also, I'll repeat Chandler's observation that the Info button does nothing. Is that supposed to be invoked with the "?" button? If so, what's the Info button supposed to do? Currently, it doesn't seem to do anything, but it's a way more logical choice for invoking "about instrument" help than the tiny question mark button.

[Chandlerhimself]

The info button will let you search through the information of various devices it seems, but Vojtech said it isn’t working well yet.

The”?” seems to bring up all the device info which is nice. I didn’t notice this before, but maybe its always been there.

I haven’t had a problem saving devices, but I remember the place where you enter the name wasn’t obvious the first time I used it.

Maybe its about we made a device design thread.

[MeldaProduction]

Correct, the "?" button is for that, but I agree that it is a bit confusing now. I need to check if the INFO button is actually needed and perhaps it would be just fine to search through everything every time.

dmbaer: Please send me a screenshot of that message, perhaps I'll be able to tell something from it. It looks like you may have insufficient permissions or something, very weird.

[dmbaer]

dmbaer: Please send me a screenshot of that message, perhaps I'll be able to tell something from it. It looks like you may have insufficient permissions or something, very weird.

I set things up to capture the screen shot and the save worked this time. So, chalk it up to pilot error on my part. I did use a different host (Patchwork vs. Cubase), and I need to retest that aspect, but it was probably my error. No news is good news on this.

I did notice a couple of things that may need attention. I wanted to save my instrument under Organ/Rock. I mistakenly just had the parent node (Organ) selected. It allowed me to save there. Maybe this is intended and maybe it's a bug. So, I saved again under Organ/Rock and that worked. Now, when positioned on Organ, both versions were listed. Again, this may be intentional or may be a bug.

Finally, there's this ... what's wrong with this picture (screen shot below) of Super Saw help? Hint, look at the very last line. It's a lie!!!

[MeldaProduction]

Haha well, it writes the info about the presets and stuff, so it's not a lie . But you are right, I have no idea why it didn't write more info

[dmbaer]

Haha well, it writes the info about the presets and stuff, so it's not a lie . But you are right, I have no idea why it didn't write more info

My point was that there is no control-level help to display in the first place. All we ever see is the brief standard description displayed, which has little value. It might be better to just turn the F1 control-level help off for MSF presets rather than disappoint the user with nothing of value for his efforts.

[MeldaProduction]

Hmmm, did you install the official update? There's definitely help now!

[dmbaer]

I had an extensive session yesterday with my first saved MSF instrument. There was much frustration, some of it of my own making I suspect. Two big questions came out of it. To make the following easier to explain, let me define a couple of terms. “Preset editing” will mean going into edit mode, selecting an old-style preset from the list, editing and then saving with an old-style replace. “Instrument editing” will mean selecting an instrument from that list (of things previously saved as an instrument), going into edit mode to make changes and saving with the new save-instrument option.

Question 1. Probably out of habit and because I didn’t know better, I attempted to keep my old-style presets and instrument definitions in sync. This caused me to lose a number of incremental improvements which I had to reapply. So my question is this: is there a recommended standard practice once we’ve gotten our instruments to the point of wanting to save as a new-style instrument? Should we, at that point, just begin doing instrument editing and not bother with preset editing (apart from maybe making an occasional backup copy as a preset)? Just sticking with preset editing until the very last moment may not be a good idea due to what’s in question 2.

Question 2. Is there a different treatment of MP default values when loading from an instrument definition vs. loading from a preset definition? I was all but tearing my hair out because I seemed to keep losing default settings. As an instrument definition, do you only get a default value that’s been established with “use current a default” for the MP? Seems like with preset definitions, you get the last-saved value but that no longer happens with loading from an instrument definition. Am I imagining there’s a difference in this or is there actually a real difference in behavior?

[elassi]

You guys better have a phone call (Skype session) rather than spreading the impression that MSF is an attempt to prove Riemann's conjecture by designing a VSTi that nobody understands, including yourselves.

In other words: I gave up to follow your thoughts and ideas.

[DarkStar]

Haha well, it writes the info about the presets and stuff, so it's not a lie . But you are right, I have no idea why it didn't write more info

My point was that there is no control-level help to display in the first place. All we ever see is the brief standard description displayed, which has little value. It might be better to just turn the F1 control-level help off for MSF presets rather than disappoint the user with nothing of value for his efforts.

Au contraire, mon brave!

F1 should not be turned off. This is a good illustration of something I posted earlier: given that a lot can go on "under the hood" of MSF, it is essential that all MSF instrument designers provide good Info about the Easy screen parameters. Otherwise users will be faced by knobs and sliders and not know what they are meant to do. As MSF is in beta at the moment, and Vojtech is "a bit busy" , he is excused for the moment.

After all instrument designers must know what they want the parameter to do when they add it to the Easy screen, so it should only take a little more time to write that in the Multiparameter's Info. And, when the designer returns to the instrument a few weeks later it will remind him/her of the parameter's use.

[DarkStar]

@ dmbaer
"Use current as default" sets the default for the Multiparameter to the MP's current value; if you do not click it the default is 50% (so that is the default default ). Consequently, there is always a default value.

As for your first question, I would always work in "preset editing" mode, but add MPs to those presets and save them. When finished I would then save it as an instrument / device.