Hive 2 is coming!

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
Stefken
KVRian
897 posts since 9 Nov, 2016

Post Sat Feb 16, 2019 6:06 am

Urs wrote:
Sat Feb 16, 2019 5:45 am
Stefken wrote:
Sat Feb 16, 2019 4:25 am
So yes, the hexagon is an obvious flaw that stares me in the face.
Putting an eye catcher in the center of UI, making it symmetric, using the architectural principle of well sized base, body and top, are classic design principles, which we follow perfectly in Hive.
I beg to differ Urs. In design, there are a lot of rules that you have to balance between each other.
So, you can't say: symmetric is good; we do symmetric; so all is good. You have to balance a lot of principles, which are often even in contradiction :wink: .

For me it's also not only about the shape but also about the placement of the Hexagon that forces all other elements to flow around it. In that respect, I follow Bones (and you) that making it a square would not resolve all issues. You'll would still have the same problems as Dune and Sylenth1. But the edges of the hexagon result in even more cramped spaces.

Screen eye movements concentrate on top and left positions. That's not where I would put the FX section. It's much better placed at the bottom like in Repro. But I like what you did with the fx section, given the constrains you've given yourself.

But I know enough about management decisions to know that they are not always taken on logical grounds. And there are a lot of decisions to be taken in a project. So, once you have, you have to move forward. So I totaly understand, once you have decided for the hexagon design, you have to stick by it and just move forward. Still, I encourage you to try a different design as well, when time allows it.

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EvilDragon
KVRAF
17696 posts since 7 Jan, 2009 from Croatia

Re: Hive 2 is coming!

Post Sat Feb 16, 2019 6:13 am

Stefken wrote:
Sat Feb 16, 2019 6:06 am
In design, there are a lot of rules that you have to balance between each other.
You're telling that to an industrial designer. :)

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Teksonik
KVRAF
12172 posts since 16 Sep, 2001 from Las Vegas,USA

Re: Hive 2 is coming!

Post Sat Feb 16, 2019 6:34 am

EvilDragon wrote:
Sat Feb 16, 2019 6:13 am
Stefken wrote:
Sat Feb 16, 2019 6:06 am
In design, there are a lot of rules that you have to balance between each other.
You're telling that to an industrial designer. :)
He's not going to buy Hive so his personal opinion means nothing.

Obvioulsy Urs knows what he's doing so doesn't need help from arm chair designers.

I have expressed my displeasure with the overly colorful appearance of the early mockup of Hive 2's new skin but it's functionality seems just fine. If Hive 2 is released with the current mockup as the default I'll simply try to edit the colors to my liking or wait for a third party skin that I like better. But again that's all based on appearance not functionality.

I've programmed hundreds of patches for Hive and have used at least two instances of it in every synth based project in recent memory and I've never given the Hexagon a moment's notice. Hive is dead simple to use but then most synths are if you take the time to learn them.

Can any UI be improved ? Since nothing is ever perfect then there is always room for improvement. But the problem is anything you change to make one person happy might make make someone else mad. Some people hate Tabs, some hate GUIs that are too Large and so on. So I think U-He has struck a nice balance between functionality and appearance with the current Hive default skins. I prefer the appearance of satYatune's Grey skin for Hive but there is nothing wrong with the functionality of Hive's current GUI....in my opinion of course. But it's an opinion formed after hundreds of hours of use... :)
None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free. Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

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pdxindy
KVRAF
14941 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds

Re: Hive 2 is coming!

Post Sat Feb 16, 2019 6:40 am

Stefken wrote:
Sat Feb 16, 2019 4:25 am
With all respect, but I have a lot more experience in this field than you and I 'see' at lot more than you.
So yes, the hexagon is an obvious flaw that stares me in the face. And we are not talking about minor precentages points, you just can't see it.
Being that you don't know me at all, you have no idea whatsoever if you have more experience than me in this field.

And maybe you see less because rigid design concepts are making you inflexible. Anyway, I think there is no further point of discussion.

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pdxindy
KVRAF
14941 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds

Re: Hive 2 is coming!

Post Sat Feb 16, 2019 6:56 am

Stefken wrote:
Sat Feb 16, 2019 4:25 am
pdxindy wrote:
Fri Feb 15, 2019 6:06 pm
And yes, the hexagon is not the most efficient shape. But so what.
You made my case. The "so what" expression is the expression of someone who doesn't care all that much. Fair enough, but why should I care then about your statement?
It's people fussing over the exact rendering of an optical lens, the exact sound of oscillators and filters,... that bring quality to products. I guess they call it field of expertise. :wink:
There is no reason you should care about my statement. There is no reason you should care about Hive at all since you don't use it and don't intend to use it and have nothing invested in it. But if you are going to engage in discussion on the subject with others... it is rude to dismiss them based on your own casual and fact-free conclusions.

Your error is in assuming that people who care a lot and are intelligent and experienced would all come to the same conclusion. There are lots of 'right' conclusions. Look around at life and it is incredibly diverse. There is no one perfect design answer.

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vurt
addled muppet weed
41663 posts since 26 Jan, 2003 from through the looking glass

Re: Hive 2 is coming!

Post Sat Feb 16, 2019 7:05 am

at the end of the day, its urs decision.
people then use their purchase power, this in turn allows urs to see if his decision has a detrimental effect.
if he is then happy with the turnover, the design works.
this is how life works.
success vs failure changes our perspective.

there is no right or wrong (that's marketing speak) there is only results :)

now kiss and make up you lot.

Stefken
KVRian
897 posts since 9 Nov, 2016

Re: Hive 2 is coming!

Post Sat Feb 16, 2019 7:19 am

Teksonik wrote:
Sat Feb 16, 2019 6:34 am

He's not going to buy Hive so his personal opinion means nothing.

Obvioulsy Urs knows what he's doing so doesn't need help from arm chair designers.
Are you some kind of a synth dev groupie or so? Do you speak for Urs? Do you even know him?
Then why are you trying to speak for him, groupie boy?

Anyway, Urs is doing a much better job than you without the need to play it ad hominem.
He does not need you.

Don't quote me again.

AnX
KVRAF
3926 posts since 17 Nov, 2015

Re: Hive 2 is coming!

Post Sat Feb 16, 2019 7:30 am

Stefken wrote:
Sat Feb 16, 2019 7:19 am
Teksonik wrote:
Sat Feb 16, 2019 6:34 am

He's not going to buy Hive so his personal opinion means nothing.

Obvioulsy Urs knows what he's doing so doesn't need help from arm chair designers.
Are you some kind of a synth dev groupie or so? Do you speak for Urs? Do you even know him?
Then why are you trying to speak for him, groupie boy?

Anyway, Urs is doing a much better job than you without the need to play it ad hominem.
He does not need you.

Don't quote me again.
does he need you? :lol:

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Teksonik
KVRAF
12172 posts since 16 Sep, 2001 from Las Vegas,USA

Re: Hive 2 is coming!

Post Sat Feb 16, 2019 7:36 am

Stefken wrote:
Sat Feb 16, 2019 7:19 am
Teksonik wrote:
Sat Feb 16, 2019 6:34 am

He's not going to buy Hive so his personal opinion means nothing.

Obvioulsy Urs knows what he's doing so doesn't need help from arm chair designers.
Are you some kind of a synth dev groupie or so? Do you speak for Urs? Do you even know him?
Then why are you trying to speak for him, groupie boy?

Anyway, Urs is doing a much better job than you without the need to play it ad hominem.
He does not need you.
Nor does he need your "advice".

No I actually own Hive. So I get to talk about it. You don't own it and already said you won't. So there is the door. Don't let it hit you on the way out..... :wink:
None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free. Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

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Urs
u-he
23362 posts since 8 Aug, 2002 from Berlin

Re: Hive 2 is coming!

Post Sat Feb 16, 2019 7:52 am

Teksonik wrote:
Sat Feb 16, 2019 6:34 am
I have expressed my displeasure with the overly colorful appearance of the early mockup of Hive 2's new skin but it's functionality seems just fine. If Hive 2 is released with the current mockup as the default I'll simply try to edit the colors to my liking or wait for a third party skin that I like better.
And we're trying to work it out. We've done more blue-ish versions with higher contrast, less military appearance, more visual depth and all that. Our designer is working lots of angles to try different aspects. We have about two more months to get there :)

Stefken
KVRian
897 posts since 9 Nov, 2016

Re: Hive 2 is coming!

Post Sat Feb 16, 2019 8:08 am

AnX wrote:
Sat Feb 16, 2019 7:30 am
Stefken wrote:
Sat Feb 16, 2019 7:19 am
Teksonik wrote:
Sat Feb 16, 2019 6:34 am

He's not going to buy Hive so his personal opinion means nothing.

Obvioulsy Urs knows what he's doing so doesn't need help from arm chair designers.
Are you some kind of a synth dev groupie or so? Do you speak for Urs? Do you even know him?
Then why are you trying to speak for him, groupie boy?

Anyway, Urs is doing a much better job than you without the need to play it ad hominem.
He does not need you.

Don't quote me again.
does he need you? :lol:
I am not trying to speak for him.
Anyway the U-he watchdogs are activating again.
Guess you can't have a U-he thread without it....

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Teksonik
KVRAF
12172 posts since 16 Sep, 2001 from Las Vegas,USA

Re: Hive 2 is coming!

Post Sat Feb 16, 2019 8:21 am

Urs wrote:
Sat Feb 16, 2019 7:52 am
Teksonik wrote:
Sat Feb 16, 2019 6:34 am
I have expressed my displeasure with the overly colorful appearance of the early mockup of Hive 2's new skin but it's functionality seems just fine. If Hive 2 is released with the current mockup as the default I'll simply try to edit the colors to my liking or wait for a third party skin that I like better.
And we're trying to work it out. We've done more blue-ish versions with higher contrast, less military appearance, more visual depth and all that. Our designer is working lots of angles to try different aspects. We have about two more months to get there :)
I have absolute faith that the final version will be highly functional. If the colors aren't to my personal liking and I can't edit the colors myself then I'll either live with it or wait for satYatunes to do one of his Hive skins for V2.

That's good news as a more blu-ish version is right up my alley. I just find a lot of different colors to be distracting and certain colors I find distasteful (for example red burns my eyes after long periods of use). I'll wait to see the final skin but upgrading will be a no-brainer even if I find the new default skin's appearance not to my taste.

I've tried to edit the original Hive skins both blue and orange since I find such activity enjoyable but was never able to get the transparencies on the Hexagon just right. No doubt my lack of talent when it comes to graphics editing or my lack of skills when using Paint Shop Pro.... :oops:
None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free. Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

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Teksonik
KVRAF
12172 posts since 16 Sep, 2001 from Las Vegas,USA

Re: Hive 2 is coming!

Post Sat Feb 16, 2019 8:28 am

Stefken wrote:
Sat Feb 16, 2019 8:08 am
Anyway the U-he watchdogs are activating again.
Guess you can't have a U-he thread without it....
No, most of us are simply users of Hive and some of us on a daily basis so we know first hand the GUI is highly functional.

Some of us would simply prefer to use the great synths we have literally at our fingertips these days instead of endlessly complaining about them.

So to that end I'm off to have a nice long play with the current version of Hive. It's an awesome sounding instrument that's dead easy to use. Nothing more can be asked of it......... 8)
None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free. Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

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fmr
KVRAF
8509 posts since 16 Mar, 2003 from Porto - Portugal

Re: Hive 2 is coming!

Post Sat Feb 16, 2019 9:45 am

Urs wrote:
Sat Feb 16, 2019 7:52 am
Teksonik wrote:
Sat Feb 16, 2019 6:34 am
I have expressed my displeasure with the overly colorful appearance of the early mockup of Hive 2's new skin but it's functionality seems just fine. If Hive 2 is released with the current mockup as the default I'll simply try to edit the colors to my liking or wait for a third party skin that I like better.
And we're trying to work it out. We've done more blue-ish versions with higher contrast, less military appearance, more visual depth and all that. Our designer is working lots of angles to try different aspects. We have about two more months to get there :)
I hope we will have alternatives. I, for a change, liked more the presented suggestion than I like the current 1.2 skin. I like the "militarish green" and the colors (go figure) :D
Fernando (FMR)

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Bodhisan
KVRian
517 posts since 7 Aug, 2015 from H2O

Re: Hive 2 is coming!

Post Sat Feb 16, 2019 10:08 am

I like the ui and especially the colors, too. But this whole opinion thing, as has been pointed out, is akin to how we like our French fries conjured up. I think giving a slew of options like the latest Tonebooster skins is the way of the future - wish Logic would incorporate that with their next foray.

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