Performance bug when opening the GUIs in Live 10 (Osx)

[V0RT3X]

As far as I can recall, I don't remember this happening in Live 9. Anyhow as soon as I load up a instance of U-he ACE, Color Copy or Bazille it lags all my graphics quite a bit. It even affects the meters in Ableton channels. It only seems to be the graphics as the audio seems to work, but it doesn't update in real time. It's like the Frame Rate drops really badly, however..

Once I hit the little wrench Icon to show/hide the GUI everything goes back to normal and Abletons meters all work.

I've tested other plugins, I can open up the GUI in Cypher2, The Drop or even Permut8 and I get none of this glitching. So It is definitely a U-he problem.

Im on a 2013 Trashcan mac pro with D700 graphics on Mojave so maybe its just my system.


This only seems to affect Ableton and the Plugins. The rest of OSX seems to function just fine in the background.


Anyone else dealing with this?

*update* Sending a official report to Uhe via their site.

** Further update**
It seems this only happens on their newer plugins, the older ones like Zebra2, MFM2, Uhbik or FIlterscape work fine and at the highest GUI resolutions.

[V0RT3X]

Nobody else has this issue?

[Urs]

There's an issue with OpenGL with certain Macs on Mojave. Apparently our super duper native Quartz code us affected in some hosts or when some other plugin uses OpenGL.

Someone who wanted to lend us his machine hasn't come back to us. We still need to find a system/configuration where we can reproduce this.

There's a whole lot of possible remedies mentioned in another thread. I can't find a link now, maybe search our forum for Mohave.

[V0RT3X]

There's an issue with OpenGL with certain Macs on Mojave. Apparently our super duper native Quartz code us affected in some hosts or when some other plugin uses OpenGL.

Someone who wanted to lend us his machine hasn't come back to us. We still need to find a system/configuration where we can reproduce this.

There's a whole lot of possible remedies mentioned in another thread. I can't find a link now, maybe search our forum for Mohave.

Interesting

I checked the other thread when you suggested I search up Mojave and found that the person who posted that is also a 2013 Mac pro user. I've tried a few of the possible remedies and so far nothing has helped.

In the mean time I've tested out the same U-he plugins in Ableton 9 Standard (9.7.7) and they seem to work as expected. So this is really a problem with Live 10 as far as I can tell.

Back in Live 10 I noticed that If i use Zebras original skins, that there is no performance glitch, but as soon as I use the new Dot eight skin I get considerable lag. Your other older plugins seem to work fine such as Filterscape VA, Uhbik, etc

The newer ones with the fancy oscilloscope and high resolution GUIs seem to cause the most problems.

Hopefully you find a work around soon, because I'd really like to use your plugins in Live 10.

Thanks for the reply!

[Urs]

Well, to be honest, I'd much rather have Apple or Ableton find the glitch and fix it. One of them messed up, probably Apple, so I don't see how I am supposed to spend months on this. If we have to move from native Quartz drawing to, say, Metal, it can easily take me several months, even a year (which would be quite a dramatic impact for us, and it would take much longer to hire someone to do this). And even if we did that, because we don't know the cause, we do not know if that "fixes" it.

We're certainly happy to see if we can fix it quickly, but without being able to reproduce it I don't know how to do that.

[Urs]

The newer ones with the fancy oscilloscope and high resolution GUIs seem to cause the most problems.

Btw. Zebra 2.8 neither has any oscilloscope nor is it particularly graphics intensive. It's actually quite resource friendly because it's got so many vector elements. But if that is the cause, it speaks for my theory that something in the vector based drawing is messed up at Apple or Ableton. Since it seems to affect certain Macs with certain graphics cards and certainy drivers... there's the most likely culprit.

[V0RT3X]

Well, to be honest, I'd much rather have Apple or Ableton find the glitch and fix it. One of them messed up, probably Apple, so I don't see how I am supposed to spend months on this. If we have to move from native Quartz drawing to, say, Metal, it can easily take me several months, even a year (which would be quite a dramatic impact for us, and it would take much longer to hire someone to do this). And even if we did that, because we don't know the cause, we do not know if that "fixes" it.

We're certainly happy to see if we can fix it quickly, but without being able to reproduce it I don't know how to do that.

It's all good

I'll send off a few bug reports to Ableton with more details in regards to this. I'm sure eventually this will start to get more attention, and now might be a good time since they are still beta testing the next release.

Also Im not completely at a loss, I can still happily use Live 9 standard for your stuff until a fix for 10 is out.

The newer ones with the fancy oscilloscope and high resolution GUIs seem to cause the most problems.

Btw. Zebra 2.8 neither has any oscilloscope nor is it particularly graphics intensive. It's actually quite resource friendly because it's got so many vector elements. But if that is the cause, it speaks for my theory that something in the vector based drawing is messed up at Apple or Ableton. Since it seems to affect certain Macs with certain graphics cards and certainy drivers... there's the most likely culprit.

Sorry I should have said "The newer plugins such as Diva, Bazille, Ace, presswerk etc with the fancy oscilloscopes and high resolution guis seem to cause the most problems"

I actually really like how optimized Zebra is, no wonder it gets so many rave reviews it's a pretty hardy beast.

Cheers

[Hanz Meyzer]

Maybe this could help, or turns out to be utter nonsense:

Add this to the Info.plist inside your DAW's .app dir:

[mcbpete]

Did I hear right that OpenGL is being depreciated or discontinued in Mac-land ?

[Urs]

Did I hear right that OpenGL is being depreciated or discontinued in Mac-land ?

Yes, pretty much.

https://appleinsider.com/articles/18/06 ... tes-opengl

[mcbpete]

Yikes, does that require a big re-write at your end, or is there's a graphics rendering library that can just be switched over ?

[Urs]

Yikes, does that require a big re-write at your end, or is there's a graphics rendering library that can just be switched over ?

We're using Apple's own CoreGraphics framework, which - as I understand - is a direct interface to Quartz and Quartz Extreme. Those are supposed to utilize hardware acceleration directly, so maybe openGL in earlier days and Metal today.

[Urs]

Maybe this could help, or turns out to be utter nonsense:

Add this to the Info.plist inside your DAW's .app dir:

That's a very interesting thought. We let the system decide when to update our window, and in which rectangles. If the system for whatever reason decides to always draw updates on each "this rectangle needs a refresh...", we'd probably see terrible performance.

Can applications change the way the system handles UI updates?

[Hanz Meyzer]

Yes, AFAIK, you can or could set it on application level with the above Info.plist key. But I don't even know if that is still supported since Sierra/High Sierra/Mojave. Before the key was named like "DisableBeamSync" or similar. At least it helped me on 10.11 with Renoise and some plugins, causing just such a daw gui lagginess.