Digital Performer 10 is now Ableton Live

[Robert Randolph]

6 years ago I bought DP8 and it literally did not work on Windows at all. Box is still sitting here brand new. Has anybody gotten it to work flawlessly on Windows?

Windows peeps seem as stable as OSX so far, but don't expect flawless out of a .0 release. IMO if you're not a long time user of any DAW really, wait until the first update at least before diving in. I would bet the last version of DP8 is usable for instance...

Thanks man. The performance was so bad, that I had become totally spooked out, and I never tried another version after that and just chocked it up as a loss. Maybe I'll give the demo a shot now, and upgrade if all works out.

DP8 was AWFUL on Windows. Terrible.

DP10 is much better, but not without some minor issues.

[Orbit-50]

Thank you so much guys for your responses.

@fmr Yeah, there's no way I was thinking of trying DP8 again but after machinesworking's suggestion, I might try the last update to DP8 for shits and giggles before updating to DP10.

@Robert Randolph I thought it was just me, but yeah, I was so hurt when that leap of faith purchase failed as bad as it did. I have a special bond with MOTU, because I cut my teeth using Performer on a Mac millions of years ago, and it really hurt me that there was no DAW on Windows that I felt as comfortable using, as I did with MOTU Performer. It took many years to get over that switch, and I honestly don't think I ever recovered from that move.

[kelldammit]

yeah, DP8 was a pretty rough start on windows, for sure.
9 was better. kicking around 10 now.

[Orbit-50]

yeah, DP8 was a pretty rough start on windows, for sure.
9 was better. kicking around 10 now.

Cool. Thank you dammit.

[machinesworking]

DP8 was AWFUL on Windows. Terrible.

DP10 is much better, but not without some minor issues.

\
OSX has a few as well. Like I mentioned though, .0 releases are not to be judged harshly, I'll wait until 10.01 rolls out and my bug isn't fixed for that!

Orbit has a copy of DP8, it's why I suggested it, not because I'm into older versions of DAWs like how users stuck to XP and Snow Leopard like they were gold pressings.

[DavidCarlyon]

How are people finding this?
I just switched from a crazy combo of Bitwig/Ableton/Studio one (and even a bit of wavewform) to reaper - in the hope that i could consolidate my DAW usage to one DAW.
How does this compare? Never tried it before. Just put a solid week into reaper purely customizing it and setting it up.

[fmr]

How are people finding this?
I just switched from a crazy combo of Bitwig/Ableton/Studio one (and even a bit of wavewform) to reaper - in the hope that i could consolidate my DAW usage to one DAW.
How does this compare? Never tried it before. Just put a solid week into reaper purely customizing it and setting it up.

For MIDI recording and editing (for example to work with Virtual Instruments) it's one of the best. None of the ones you quoted can be compared, IMO.

For audio, it can even reproduce the Pro Tools workflow, and has all the features necessary for a good Audio DAW. In terms of easy of use, I guess it will take more time than Studio One, but it offerw way more power.

Regarding Bitwig, it doesn't have the modularity approach, so if that's important to you, it cannoit replace it. Regarding Live, it now has what was the main feature Live has unique, and in the main chapters (MIDI/audio recording and editing) it is MUCU better and more powerful.

DP is one of the oldest DAWs available, pre-dating the advent of digital audio on the computer (was born as a MIDI-only sequencer). Its traditions reflect that, and it usually has many ways to accomplish tasks (some legacy ways are still there because old users would not like them to be removed). This may be confusing for new users, but you don't have to learn all of them. Concentrate on one workflow method, and learn that one.

[DavidCarlyon]

How are people finding this?
I just switched from a crazy combo of Bitwig/Ableton/Studio one (and even a bit of wavewform) to reaper - in the hope that i could consolidate my DAW usage to one DAW.
How does this compare? Never tried it before. Just put a solid week into reaper purely customizing it and setting it up.

For MIDI recording and editing (for example to work with Virtual Instruments) it's one of the best. None of the ones you quoted can be compared, IMO.

For audio, it can even reproduce the Pro Tools workflow, and has all the features necessary for a good Audio DAW. In terms of easy of use, I guess it will take more time than Studio One, but it offerw way more power.

Regarding Bitwig, it doesn't have the modularity approach, so if that's important to you, it cannoit replace it. Regarding Live, it now has what was the main feature Live has unique, and in the main chapters (MIDI/audio recording and editing) it is MUCU better and more powerful.

DP is one of the oldest DAWs available, pre-dating the advent of digital audio on the computer (was born as a MIDI-only sequencer). Its traditions reflect that, and it usually has many ways to accomplish tasks (some legacy ways are still there because old users would not like them to be removed). This may be confusing for new users, but you don't have to learn all of them. Concentrate on one workflow method, and learn that one.

Thanks for the reply.
Even better than Reaper for midi? Interesting.
The trouble I am having is sending out nrpn data to my analog synths. I can’t find a daw that has an organised way of doing it.

But other than that I am really enjoying reaper. It is quite amazing what can be done with this thing.

[Orbit-50]

Well, I reinstalled DP8 with all of it's updates on my studio machine just to check it it out again. CPU use was a little bit better, but blacklisted all Tone2, reFX, and Vengeance, Steinberg, and Sugar Bytes plugins. I got it up and running and seemed ok, but after some use, all it took was about 5 minutes, and the audio engine became extremely unstable just like it did 6 years ago. I don't know what the hell went on there, really hard to describe, it just became very sluggish, and the sequencer was firing off notes that weren't even there. I had to just shut it down because I found no way to fix the bizarre behavior. Happened about 3 times, and I just gave up.
No other DAW I have, has ever done this. Not even the crappiest ones. If I have some time to waste at some point, I'll try the DP10 demo, but I'm pretty sure it'll be the same, because if in 6 years, they couldn't fix DP8 to at least work properly on Windows 10, they sure as hell probably did not put any more effort into refining DP10 for Windows. This software was built for a Mac. Period.

[Orbit-50]

For MIDI recording and editing (for example to work with Virtual Instruments) it's one of the best. None of the ones you quoted can be compared, IMO.

For audio, it can even reproduce the Pro Tools workflow, and has all the features necessary for a good Audio DAW. In terms of easy of use, I guess it will take more time than Studio One, but it offerw way more power.

Regarding Bitwig, it doesn't have the modularity approach, so if that's important to you, it cannoit replace it. Regarding Live, it now has what was the main feature Live has unique, and in the main chapters (MIDI/audio recording and editing) it is MUCU better and more powerful.

DP is one of the oldest DAWs available, pre-dating the advent of digital audio on the computer (was born as a MIDI-only sequencer). Its traditions reflect that, and it usually has many ways to accomplish tasks (some legacy ways are still there because old users would not like them to be removed). This may be confusing for new users, but you don't have to learn all of them. Concentrate on one workflow method, and learn that one.

Very good post, because you are 100% correct. DP is awesome and has features that no other DAW has, especially the MIDI editing power. That's what I'm after, and that's what I miss about it. This is why I'm so pissed with the performance I'm getting. It's the best DAW out there, but unusable for me.

[fmr]

No other DAW I have, has ever done this. Not even the crappiest ones. If I have some time to waste at some point, I'll try the DP10 demo, but I'm pretty sure it'll be the same, because if in 6 years, they couldn't fix DP8 to at least work properly on Windows 10, they sure as hell probably did not put any more effort into refining DP10 for Windows. This software was built for a Mac. Period.

Believe me... they did. They didn't fix DP8 because they stopped working on it after launching DP9 (naturally). DP9 was a big step forward, and I believe DP10 (which I didn't try yet) will represent another big step in the right direction. Remember that DP8 was THE FIRST Digital Performer that ever ran in Windows.

[Orbit-50]

Makes sense man, but I would think they would at least make DP8 functional for those who actually purchased it and maybe didn't upgrade. I get your point though, thanks for the push because I really want to use it.

[fmr]

Even better than Reaper for midi? Interesting.
The trouble I am having is sending out nrpn data to my analog synths. I can’t find a daw that has an organised way of doing it.

Working with Sys-Ex in Digital Performer is really easy. I never found a DAW where it was so easy.

You select the MIDI track you wan to use, and you open the Even List editor. The you go the sub-menu and select System Exclusive in the filter. Clicking the + button inserts an empty System Exclusive message in the track (you can place it at any point you want).

If you double click the event, a system exclusive editor opens. There you can paste the message (in hexadecimal) or simply write it manually.

I don't know any other DAW that deals with MIDI Sys-Ex as elegantly as this. The System Exclusive editing window is pictured below:

[machinesworking]

^^^ On top of what fmr said here, just setting up a basic SysEx dump for the song to load programs into my synths, it's easy enough to make a simple Sequence Chunk to load those patches before starting the song. I find it useful to not have to have the song start late, or to wait for the delay while SysEx data transfers to the hardware etc. Other DAWs can do this, but you're talking about loading an additional 'song' to do this and in DP it's a simple Sequence Chunk.

>>> Side note, this is what pisses me off about Ableton not doing SysEx. It would also be trivial in Live to have a Clip that you could fire before starting a song in Live to do this, if Live was capable of SysEx, Max4Live workarounds are still not there. I haven't tried using Clips in DP to do this, but it's theoretically possible I guess. Time will tell. <<<

[Mies]

For audio, it can even reproduce the Pro Tools workflow, and has all the features necessary for a good Audio DAW. In terms of easy of use, I guess it will take more time than Studio One, but it offerw way more power.

Can you elaborate on DP10's audio features that take it beyond REAPER and Studio One please?
Audio editing is key for me, more so than MIDI capabilities, and was what drove me to virtually stop using Logic (despite its being a great DAW in many respects), so I'm genuinely curious. (Note: I've never used DP.)