KVR Audio

robbmonn · Post by **robbmonn** » Wed Mar 13, 2019 5:53 am

[quote=Grizzellda post_id=7341155 time=1552438392 user_id=352033]
How is this any different from what you could achieve using a modular system, either software or hardware?

[i]Providing that system could do wavetables[/i].

[/quote]

polyphony?

Urs · Post by **Urs** » Wed Mar 13, 2019 8:46 am

yellowmix wrote: Wed Mar 13, 2019 5:41 am Exciting! The shape sequencer looks like the "Flow LFO"s in Biotek. However, those in Biotek are performance controls and being able to sequence them in Hive 2 brings it to another level!

It looks similar, but I think it's a different concept.

Biotek has 8 LFOs with 8 "SubLFOs" each. That's 64. So you'd sit there and edit 64 LFO settings in order to use it to its full potential. It's certainly powerful, but man, doesn't it explain why even in Zebra we only ever put 4 of each?

Hive's shape thing has 8 envelope segments in total. Just those 8 you see. Those are shared by the 4 sequences set up below it. It's a mindbogglingly simple concept. It kind of puzzles me that I have not seen this before. Surely, someone must have had that idea before me - would love to check it out!

When you click a segment, a larger version of it appears in the hexagon. There you can set the shape (saw/square/triangle) the maximum and minimum level, the curvature and the number of ratchets. Latter smoothly fades in multiple versions of the same basic shape in an IMHO very useful pattern.

What's furthermore different to Biotek's Flow LFO, there you can scan through the settings by about any modulation source, if I understand it correctly. I have not added any way to scan through Hive's shapes from an external modulation source. I'm sure this will be the next feature request. But I'll be reluctant to do that because it uses a lot less CPU when moving forward at a constant pace.

PieBerger · Post by **PieBerger** » Wed Mar 13, 2019 8:46 am

robbmonn wrote: Wed Mar 13, 2019 5:53 am
Grizzellda wrote: Wed Mar 13, 2019 12:53 am How is this any different from what you could achieve using a modular system, either software or hardware?

Providing that system could do wavetables.
polyphony?

Also simplicity. Hive is an otherwise straight forward synth to understand and program, that we're getting a taste of some of the deeper and more generative tools of modular, in such a simple and streamlined synth is awesome imo.

Urs · Post by **Urs** » Wed Mar 13, 2019 9:01 am

Grizzellda wrote: Wed Mar 13, 2019 12:53 am How is this any different from what you could achieve using a modular system, either software or hardware?

Providing that system could do wavetables.

In a modular system you'd get to connect anything to anything. Hive on the other hand has a strict distinction between modulation and audio signals. For instance, you can not route an audio signal into the envelope followers (Func1/2) to extract a modulation signal. You can't sync an envelope to an audio oscillator, or use an oscillator as an LFO.

But. I think the main reason I always thought Hive was underrated was the power of its ModMatrix. If you know the Hive Science soundsets by Kevin Schröder and Howard Scarr, they are full of "sounds Hive can't do". But then you check out what they did in the ModMatrix and it go oi, didn't think about that.

I think with the revised interface and the added options Hive will go far into modular territory.

But I can also think of a gazillion ways to make playable and "musically useful" patches sound more alive and expressive than they would without.

ATS · Post by **ATS** » Wed Mar 13, 2019 9:11 am

I been kicking myself for selling HIVE, i know I will buy it back before too long.

keel · Post by **keel** » Wed Mar 13, 2019 10:24 am

Will there be modulation "moves" like Serum has? You modulate some knob and it will move in visually, just like in Serum and Pigments and so on. I find it useful

PS. I tested latest Bitwig 2.5 demo, and I found out that if I have uhe synths playing and then I open the synth, the sounds from the synth stops right away. I need to stop and press play again to get the sound back. Bug on uhe synths or in Bitwig?

Urs · Post by **Urs** » Wed Mar 13, 2019 10:58 am

keel wrote: Wed Mar 13, 2019 10:24 am Will there be modulation "moves" like Serum has? You modulate some knob and it will move in visually, just like in Serum and Pigments and so on. I find it useful

That's what I call "balls in orbit". I might give it a try, but the schedule is quite tight. If we do this, it would certainly be an option one can switch on or off.

The problem with these things is, you can't really make out fast modulations. But it's those fast modulations most of the time which you will want to track down. That's why we're adding the Insights module. It shows you the past seconds or so of a bunch of modulations and when you hear something unexpected you can freeze the scope and zoom in to where it happened.

This currently works for any modulation source, but I will try to make it happen for ModMatrix slots as well, such that you can track individual parameter movements. I'm not sure if I get that baked for 2.0 though, it may have to wait for a later date.

PS. I tested latest Bitwig 2.5 demo, and I found out that if I have uhe synths playing and then I open the synth, the sounds from the synth stops right away. I need to stop and press play again to get the sound back. Bug on uhe synths or in Bitwig?

It's an issue with our VST3 versions IIRC. Apparently Steinberg and others have not implemented VST3 properly in this one aspect, so this bug never occurred to us. Bitwig is going to offer a workaround in the next update and we will continue to fix this with future updates.

sacer · Post by **sacer** » Wed Mar 13, 2019 12:21 pm

Urs wrote: Wed Mar 13, 2019 10:58 am
keel wrote: Wed Mar 13, 2019 10:24 am Will there be modulation "moves" like Serum has? You modulate some knob and it will move in visually, just like in Serum and Pigments and so on. I find it useful
That's what I call "balls in orbit". I might give it a try, but the schedule is quite tight. If we do this, it would certainly be an option one can switch on or off.

The problem with these things is, you can't really make out fast modulations. But it's those fast modulations most of the time which you will want to track down. That's why we're adding the Insights module. It shows you the past seconds or so of a bunch of modulations and when you hear something unexpected you can freeze the scope and zoom in to where it happened.

This currently works for any modulation source, but I will try to make it happen for ModMatrix slots as well, such that you can track individual parameter movements. I'm not sure if I get that baked for 2.0 though, it may have to wait for a later date.

PS. I tested latest Bitwig 2.5 demo, and I found out that if I have uhe synths playing and then I open the synth, the sounds from the synth stops right away. I need to stop and press play again to get the sound back. Bug on uhe synths or in Bitwig?
It's an issue with our VST3 versions IIRC. Apparently Steinberg and others have not implemented VST3 properly in this one aspect, so this bug never occurred to us. Bitwig is going to offer a workaround in the next update and we will continue to fix this with future updates.

I think visible modulation is the success of massive, serum, avenger and now also pigments. An option to switch on / off would be nice.
When i demonstrated last weekend a friend some basic synths he understood nothing about how an envelope or a lfo is working, then I showed him pigments and he was finaly able to undestand what is going on.

EvilDragon · Post by **EvilDragon** » Wed Mar 13, 2019 12:59 pm

Urs wrote: Wed Mar 13, 2019 10:58 amApparently Steinberg and others have not implemented VST3 properly in this one aspect

OH THE IRONY!

Urs · Post by **Urs** » Wed Mar 13, 2019 2:34 pm

EvilDragon wrote: Wed Mar 13, 2019 12:59 pm
Urs wrote: Wed Mar 13, 2019 10:58 amApparently Steinberg and others have not implemented VST3 properly in this one aspect
OH THE IRONY!

I'm just repeat what I get from some other dev who explained the issue to me

keel · Post by **keel** » Wed Mar 13, 2019 3:10 pm

Urs wrote: Wed Mar 13, 2019 10:58 am
PS. I tested latest Bitwig 2.5 demo, and I found out that if I have uhe synths playing and then I open the synth, the sounds from the synth stops right away. I need to stop and press play again to get the sound back. Bug on uhe synths or in Bitwig?
It's an issue with our VST3 versions IIRC. Apparently Steinberg and others have not implemented VST3 properly in this one aspect, so this bug never occurred to us. Bitwig is going to offer a workaround in the next update and we will continue to fix this with future updates.

Hmm.. I am using only VST 2.4 plugins, so I don't know

vurt · Post by **vurt** » Wed Mar 13, 2019 3:15 pm

anyone else think balls in orbit sounds fun?

Urs · Post by **Urs** » Wed Mar 13, 2019 3:21 pm

keel wrote: Wed Mar 13, 2019 3:10 pm
Urs wrote: Wed Mar 13, 2019 10:58 am
PS. I tested latest Bitwig 2.5 demo, and I found out that if I have uhe synths playing and then I open the synth, the sounds from the synth stops right away. I need to stop and press play again to get the sound back. Bug on uhe synths or in Bitwig?
It's an issue with our VST3 versions IIRC. Apparently Steinberg and others have not implemented VST3 properly in this one aspect, so this bug never occurred to us. Bitwig is going to offer a workaround in the next update and we will continue to fix this with future updates.
Hmm.. I am using only VST 2.4 plugins, so I don't know

Might still be the same issue.

neverbeeninariot · Post by **neverbeeninariot** » Wed Mar 13, 2019 3:45 pm

vurt wrote: Wed Mar 13, 2019 3:15 pm anyone else think balls in orbit sounds fun?

It should, at least, be the name of the 2.0 default patch. : )

nilhartman · Post by **nilhartman** » Wed Mar 13, 2019 4:06 pm

Wow! So, 1) I'm definitely getting Hive 2 and 2) I hope similar modulation section will end in other u-he synths. It looks absolutely stunning and fun.

Hive 2 is coming!