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OneOfManyPauls wrote: Sat Mar 16, 2019 5:17 pm https://www.spectrasonics.net/support/k ... egoryID=78
I've heard that unrestricted license transfers/used sales are legal in some countries in Europe. Is this true?
No, but it's a common misunderstanding of the laws. Spectrasonics Virtual Instruments come with two licenses - one for the software and one for the sound recordings (core library samples). Some countries in Europe (such as Germany and Denmark) have laws which allow the unrestricted resale of consumer software and used consumer music CDs. However, these laws do not apply to professional samples/virtual instruments like ours that are used in the creation of new musical works/recordings. So the license agreement for all Spectrasonics products is applicable in the same way throughout the world.
If all Spectrasonic products are sample based then what they say is most likely true, this ruling does not apply. If you have made music using those sample based synths and you then sell the synth you no longer have a license to use the sounds packaged with the synth, since they count as samples and samples are not software - so this would now make a nice legal mess around the tracks you already created. I would be surprised if they granted many license transfer requests. I wonder under what circumstances they would? Not likely that "I just want to sell it because I no longer use it" would suffice.

It doesn't answer the original question, however, which was "how can a software developer get away with making a license NFR in light of this ruling?" The answer there I think is that if the software was free (e.g., an initial offering where the first X users get it free, or for whatever reason you are given the software as a gift by the supplier) then making it NFR may well be acceptable despite the ruling. Since you technically did not purchase the software you don't get the right to sell it. I don't know if this would in fact be true and you might have a good legal basis for challenging it (provided you are an EU citizen or permanent resident.)

What I do think would be covered by the ruling is that if you bought something second hand, I know some suppliers make it NFR at that point, i.e., only the original purchaser can sell it. That's iffy at best and would probably not be allowed according to that ruling. And obviously if you are the original purchaser.
Fleer wrote: Sat Mar 16, 2019 7:20 pm Sadly, this exposes Spectrasonics to EU infringement procedures.
Almost certainly not. See my explanation above.

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Not convincing I’m afraid. Exposure remains regarding applicability, whether professional or not, even when used in the creation of new musical works.

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I'm guessing you don't really understand the difference between licenses for samples and software and how that affects sample based software synths.

Maybe you're right but I wouldn't count on it. The article on the ruling made no mention at all of samples. So while it would apply to the software itself it would probably not apply to the samples contained within the software. Since you can't sell just the synth resale could be reasonably restricted.

Of course we can't know for sure. This is something a court would have to decide. I just would not be as confident as you that you would win.

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You shouldn’t be guessing. Better study law at a good school ;)
Exposure simply means exposure. Nothing is final until the fat lady sings.

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ozonepaul wrote: Thu Mar 14, 2019 6:21 pm Soundtheory Gullfoss Windows version early access intro price $99 (£75)
https://www.soundtheory.com/home

From the soundtheory website:
"When we release the Windows version of Gullfoss there will be an early access phase that will last for a few months. Throughout early access the price will be $99 or equivalent (roughly half price). We expect that the Windows version will go through a number of periodic releases as we proactively deal with specific issues that are fed back by customers. This is very similar to the process after the launch of the Mac version in early 2018. Once the Windows version is completely stable we'll announce the end of early access, and with one month's warning, the price will revert to $199."
At last, you Windows guys are in for a treat. Go get this wonder of a plugin.

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mladi wrote: Sat Mar 16, 2019 5:31 pm
dzilizzi wrote: Sat Mar 16, 2019 2:36 pm
mladi wrote: Sat Mar 16, 2019 11:59 am
dzilizzi wrote: Sat Mar 16, 2019 2:29 am Hey, you know it doesn't specify what Cubase you can cross grade from. Elements is $99.90. Maybe they should have been more specific?
You can only select one crossgrade:

Crossgrade from Cubase
Cubase 4 or higher required

Pretty clear to me isn't it? :)
Actually, no. If you go to their website, it is just Cubase (10) available in 3 options. So it is Cubase 10 Elements version, Cubase 10 Artist version, and Cubase 10 Pro version.They are all clumped in as the same product on the website. So, based on this, Cubase 10 Elements qualifies as a form of Cubase that is newer than Cubase 4. I am going to guess because they have to approve crossgrades, they will realize the wording is bad eventually. But I would say it was legally arguable. It should specify the pro version.

And? I started with 8, it was much more clearly separated then. Elements and Artist also were much more limited.
You can't crossgrade with Cubase Elements 10 to full Cubase Pro 10 for example. With Steinberg method you can only upgrade within the same product line. They probably think they actually don't need to point it out for a crossgrade to Nuendo when they never allowed this update/crossgrade path even within the Cubase line.
LOL! You are missing the point.

Go to their web page and look at the product menu. It is Cubase (just Cubase) Nuendo with 3 versions and WaveLab and Dorico with regular and elements versions.

I notice the shop page is now showing 3 versions of Cubase. But they are Cubase Pro, Cubase Artist, and Cubase Elements. The Crossgrade just says Cubase. Technically, they are all Cubase per their website. Although we all know they mean Pro, they do not say it even on the Crossgrades page. If you took it to court, they could lose, though I think Cubase Artist might have a better argument for crossgrade based on reasonableness.

Sorry, took some law classes. As soon as I saw this, I wanted to email them, but they don't make it easy.

And of course you can't crossgrade from Cubase to Cubase, that makes no sense.

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Actually there is one version of Cubase, and that is Cubase Pro. Cubase Artist and Cubase Elements are cut down versions of the program...so that would NOT stand up in court of law. Further they have officially stated it in their forums that the offer is from versions of Cubase Full (the term Pro was added to later versions 8 forward).

Additionally, outside of the sale, there is NO crossgrade path from Elements or Artist, so why would they suddenly include it now? They don't.

Dream, wish, evoke, sue, or even pray to your god but trust that nothing outside of Cubase FULL will allow that crossgrade to work.

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thejonsolo wrote: Sat Mar 16, 2019 10:33 pm Dream, wish, evoke, sue, or even pray to your god but trust that nothing outside of Cubase FULL will allow that crossgrade to work.
I have been meaning to sue God. Anyone else in on a class action???

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fold4 wrote: Sat Mar 16, 2019 7:54 pm I would be surprised if they granted many license transfer requests. I wonder under what circumstances they would? Not likely that "I just want to sell it because I no longer use it" would suffice.
I had no issue with them approving my request to sell my omni2 license pretty much by saying I no longer use it.

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dzilizzi wrote: Sat Mar 16, 2019 9:53 pm
LOL! You are missing the point.

Go to their web page and look at the product menu. It is Cubase (just Cubase) Nuendo with 3 versions and WaveLab and Dorico with regular and elements versions.

I notice the shop page is now showing 3 versions of Cubase. But they are Cubase Pro, Cubase Artist, and Cubase Elements. The Crossgrade just says Cubase. Technically, they are all Cubase per their website. Although we all know they mean Pro, they do not say it even on the Crossgrades page. If you took it to court, they could lose, though I think Cubase Artist might have a better argument for crossgrade based on reasonableness.

Sorry, took some law classes. As soon as I saw this, I wanted to email them, but they don't make it easy.

And of course you can't crossgrade from Cubase to Cubase, that makes no sense.
They say Cubase 4 or higher is required they don*t write Artist or Elements. It's your fault if you don't understand that they never have any cross-/upgrade path from stripped down versions to full. As already pointed out why would they changed that for this sale then? Also they can't write Cubase 4 Pro because the full version back then was named Cubase 4 and nothing else. I think you should take some more law classes. :oops:

The only one who miss the point is you i'm afraid. :hihi:
Image
Intel® Core™ i9-9900K•Cubase 11•Presonus Eris E8 XT•Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 & Octopre•NI Kontrol S61 MK2•Stein­berg CC121•Synthesizers: Arturia Casio Korg Roland Yamaha

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thejonsolo wrote: Sat Mar 16, 2019 10:33 pm Actually there is one version of Cubase, and that is Cubase Pro. Cubase Artist and Cubase Elements are cut down versions of the program...so that would NOT stand up in court of law. Further they have officially stated it in their forums that the offer is from versions of Cubase Full (the term Pro was added to later versions 8 forward).

Additionally, outside of the sale, there is NO crossgrade path from Elements or Artist, so why would they suddenly include it now? They don't.

Dream, wish, evoke, sue, or even pray to your god but trust that nothing outside of Cubase FULL will allow that crossgrade to work.
Wow, okay. I still stand by my statement that it is not clear on the website or store. But you know, nevermind. It is only clear if you have owned Cubase for years.

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escalona wrote: Sun Mar 17, 2019 1:27 am bx_2098 EQ Inspired by the legendary Amek 9098 EQ
$29
Use Voucher Code:
24H-2098eQ-29-190317
what a time to be alive :P

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Has anyone checked their Presonus account lately ?
They have added a few more things to the software that is free with their interfaces/mixers :-)

- iZotope Neutron Elements
- UJAM PHAT drummer
- Studio Linked Trophies

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dzilizzi wrote: Sun Mar 17, 2019 12:51 am Wow, okay. I still stand by my statement that it is not clear on the website or store. But you know, nevermind. It is only clear if you have owned Cubase for years.
I agree. It is not exactly clear if you are new to Cubase...how hard would it be to say "Elements and Artist excluded"?

And I was just trying to be funny. To my knowledge there would be nothing to stop a person from buying the upgrade and finding out the hard way. I have not purchased yet so I do not know if they require you to actually log in to verify proper ownership of a crossgrade product.

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agharta wrote: Fri Mar 15, 2019 5:24 pm I wonder if JRR etc will have the same price?
Thank you for asking. Yes, we have the AmpliTube Fender sale up, as well:

https://www.jrrshop.com/ik-multimedia?d ... _from_date

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