Let's talk reaktor 6.4

[gentleclockdivider]

Anyone seen any third party development for reaktor in the past few years ?

Why would blocks or racks be any different ?
It's great as a stepping stone , but not as a commercial dev.environment ..

N.I. just wants to compete with vcv rack and cherry , adding cables and online authorisation is the first step . ( online authorisation for personal use racks .. ) , this is a thorn in the eye of a lot of reaktor builders .
Don't get me wrong , I love reaktor and build my own stuff , but let's stay realistic

[Echoes in the Attic]

At michael Hetrick , what do you mean the new (euroreakt)rack will be closed , do you mean the core cells ?
The new ( patch ready ) blocks can still be opened in normal structure and ensemble view , front panel patching and saveable as an ensemble

Euro Reakt will remain hackable. The old User Library version will remain as-is. I don't plan on ever taking that down.

To open up Blocks (including the new Blocks Base), you have to be in Ensemble mode (i.e., Build when you first open Reaktor, or New Ensemble from the file menu). Then, select the Library tab. All of the new Blocks will show up there. Some of NI's blocks have always been locked (Monark, Driver, etc.), but I just opened up the Modern Comb Filter from Blocks Prime and looked at all the core stuff.

So if you make an adjustment to one of the rack compatible blocks like in the Blocks base group while in ensemble mode and save that ism file, does it still work in rack mode with the changes saved?

Yes, the Rack files simply reference the saved ism files, which is why the Racks are so small. This made it a lot easier to do Euro Reakt bug fixes, as I didn't need to update each .ens file (In the User Library Euro Reakt, most of the .ens files have wildly out-of-date Blocks compared to the rest of the folder).

SO I guess this addresses the concern that was brought up about being whether a user can fix a bug in a factory block and not have to wait for NI to fix it right? Unless the factory rack blocks are locked somehow? If they can be edited and saved then couldn't people just build their own rack compatible blocks by editing the factory blocks? I guess not really since they'd have to replace them entirely, they couldn't make duplicates to use...

[gentleclockdivider]

Blocks need to be encoded and entered in NI's product database, so that it can be authorized and then referenced in Racks. Pretty much the same thing as with Kontakt.

Could you give an honoust answer why this is necessary , if it is for personal use only ?
Is it because of the .nksr preset system , shed some light please

[JoeCat]

Anyone seen any third party development for reaktor in the past few years ?

Why would blocks or racks be any different ?
It's great as a stepping stone , but not as a commercial dev.environment ..

N.I. just wants to compete with vcv rack and cherry , adding cables and online authorisation is the first step . ( online authorisation for personal use racks .. ) , this is a thorn in the eye of a lot of reaktor builders .
Don't get me wrong , I love reaktor and build my own stuff , but let's stay realistic

Online authorization for personal use racks - yeah, I'm thinking the hardware equivalent is putting your own Eurorack module together and needed to get approval from the EU before installing it (ok a bit hyperbolic but it does kinda take the User out of the User ecosystem).

[pdxindy]

I get where NI may be going, and a Rack eco-system similar to VCV, Cherry, etc. would not be unwelcome - I'd love to see incentive for Mutable, PSP, to sell bespoke blocks, locked down the same way the Monark blocks are, etc.

Does the Mutable stuff in VCV cost money?

I'm curious how this stuff is going to play out. I could spend the next 10 years exploring just the included Blocks that come with Racks and still be discovering new sounds. Too many modules just becomes a burden for me. Not that I am the target, but there is basically zero chance I would buy any additional blocks. Is there really a market for this stuff?

So much new modular software has come out recently. Perhaps pushed by a combination of the eurorack expansion and the abundance of fixed architecture synths already available. Suddenly, the software modular area also looks crowded. I doubt all the new modular environments can survive.

Once Bitwig ships their modular environment, I likely wont be looking at other modular environments much. I like their focus on workflow and the way it smartly auto-wires itself. I like the new Racks wiring, but if I have a filter block and it is wired with various modulations, FM source etc, and I want to try a different filter, everything has to be re-wired. For me, it crosses that threshold where I just wont bother. I found it inviting what Bitwig showed at NAMM where a different filter was just dropped onto the existing wired filter and no rewiring was needed.

I also like that the Bitwig Grids have polyphony, unison and MPE capability. It is unlikely to ever have the sonic diversity and I doubt the sound quality will match Blocks, but it will also likely use significantly less CPU and because of the workflow, ease of saving presets etc, I may actually make good use of it.

[Echoes in the Attic]

Anyone seen any third party development for reaktor in the past few years ?

Why would blocks or racks be any different ?
It's great as a stepping stone , but not as a commercial dev.environment ..

N.I. just wants to compete with vcv rack and cherry , adding cables and online authorisation is the first step . ( online authorisation for personal use racks .. ) , this is a thorn in the eye of a lot of reaktor builders .
Don't get me wrong , I love reaktor and build my own stuff , but let's stay realistic

There might not be a ton of third party commercial stuff but I think that's mainly because there's so much free stuff, nobody could ever get through it in a lifetime, so why pay for stuff. But every so often there is an exception, like Twisted Tools, which make some very cool stuff.

As for needing authorization for personal stuff, do you really need racks for your own personal stuff? Can't you jut use front wired blocks in the regular ensemble format? You're in control of the files, no distribution necessary. I don't think the old way is so bad for that. But the officially installed rack blocks seem good for anything mass distributed and maintained. Seems like both systems have a place.

[WasteLand]

Anyone seen any third party development for reaktor in the past few years ?

Why would blocks or racks be any different ?
It's great as a stepping stone , but not as a commercial dev.environment ..

N.I. just wants to compete with vcv rack and cherry , adding cables and online authorisation is the first step . ( online authorisation for personal use racks .. ) , this is a thorn in the eye of a lot of reaktor builders .
Don't get me wrong , I love reaktor and build my own stuff , but let's stay realistic

the euro reakt blocks are now ready for reaktor 6.3+, but with a price, the rack versions;

https://www.unfilteredaudio.com/collections/reaktor

i do not mind that you must pay for them, it is a great collection, but the pricing is a bit steep (is that the correct expression?), says the man who bought the buchla 296e for softube modular........

the problem the euro reakt blocks remain free, and useable.

the rack version has it's advantages. and i think the price is right, for 140 modules. and the programmer/developer deserves it.

but this is of course a bit strange: euro reakt for "free"or payed with patch cables..

[pdxindy]

Anyone seen any third party development for reaktor in the past few years ?

Why would blocks or racks be any different ?
It's great as a stepping stone , but not as a commercial dev.environment ..

N.I. just wants to compete with vcv rack and cherry , adding cables and online authorisation is the first step . ( online authorisation for personal use racks .. ) , this is a thorn in the eye of a lot of reaktor builders .
Don't get me wrong , I love reaktor and build my own stuff , but let's stay realistic

Online authorization for personal use racks - yeah, I'm thinking the hardware equivalent is putting your own Eurorack module together and needed to get approval from the EU before installing it (ok a bit hyperbolic but it does kinda take the User out of the User ecosystem).

I don't understand it well enough to have an opinion, but it does sound user unfriendly... If it is as you describe, why would I ever want to have to go through some registration process just to make my own module for my own use (not that I am likely to ever do that myself)?

VCV seems more use friendly and welcoming in a variety of ways.

[Echoes in the Attic]

I get where NI may be going, and a Rack eco-system similar to VCV, Cherry, etc. would not be unwelcome - I'd love to see incentive for Mutable, PSP, to sell bespoke blocks, locked down the same way the Monark blocks are, etc.

Does the Mutable stuff in VCV cost money?

I'm curious how this stuff is going to play out. I could spend the next 10 years exploring just the included Blocks that come with Racks and still be discovering new sounds. Too many modules just becomes a burden for me. Not that I am the target, but there is basically zero chance I would buy any additional blocks. Is there really a market for this stuff?

So much new modular software has come out recently. Perhaps pushed by a combination of the eurorack expansion and the abundance of fixed architecture synths already available. Suddenly, the software modular area also looks crowded. I doubt all the new modular environments can survive.

Once Bitwig ships their modular environment, I likely wont be looking at other modular environments much. I like their focus on workflow and the way it smartly auto-wires itself. I like the new Racks wiring, but if I have a filter block and it is wired with various modulations, FM source etc, and I want to try a different filter, everything has to be re-wired. For me, it crosses that threshold where I just wont bother. I found it inviting what Bitwig showed at NAMM where a different filter was just dropped onto the existing wired filter and no rewiring was needed.

I also like that the Bitwig Grids have polyphony, unison and MPE capability. It is unlikely to ever have the sonic diversity and I doubt the sound quality will match Blocks, but it will also likely use significantly less CPU and because of the workflow, ease of saving presets etc, I may actually make good use of it.

I think there's no doubt the Bitwig's grid will beat blocks in many ways, especially ease of use and polyphony. The sound is just not the same though. Personally I like fairly simple setups with blocks. IT also make a good combo with bitwig where you can have the synthesis blocks in reaktor and then do modulations with bitwigs mod system, since it's all mono anyways so works well. TO get even more erm... modular... I like Reaktor blocks for oscillators followed by The Drop, and using Bitwig modulators on both.

[pdxindy]

the euro reakt blocks are now ready for reaktor 6.3+, but with a price, the rack versions;

https://www.unfilteredaudio.com/collections/reaktor

i do not mind that you must pay for them, it is a great collection, but the pricing is a bit steep (is that the correct expression?), says the man who bought the buchla 296e for softube modular........

the problem the euro reakt blocks remain free, and useable.

the rack version has it's advantages. and i think the price is right, for 140 modules. and the programmer/developer deserves it.

but this is of course a bit strange: euro reakt for "free"or payed with patch cables..

I do not at all begrudge the developer getting paid. Euro Reakt is an impressive collection.

I rarely used Blocks (even though I like the sound and available modules) because the workflow was too clumsy for me (plus too heavy on CPU) and I always ended up going elsewhere to accomplish what I wanted.

Now comes the Racks version, which looks promising with easier wiring, but now it is going to be significantly more costly. I'm just not going to use it enough to justify paying for additional Rack blocks. My small modular needs/interests can be met by other software than Reaktor 6.3.

[WasteLand]

I get where NI may be going, and a Rack eco-system similar to VCV, Cherry, etc. would not be unwelcome - I'd love to see incentive for Mutable, PSP, to sell bespoke blocks, locked down the same way the Monark blocks are, etc.

Does the Mutable stuff in VCV cost money?

I'm curious how this stuff is going to play out. I could spend the next 10 years exploring just the included Blocks that come with Racks and still be discovering new sounds. Too many modules just becomes a burden for me. Not that I am the target, but there is basically zero chance I would buy any additional blocks. Is there really a market for this stuff?

So much new modular software has come out recently. Perhaps pushed by a combination of the eurorack expansion and the abundance of fixed architecture synths already available. Suddenly, the software modular area also looks crowded. I doubt all the new modular environments can survive.

Once Bitwig ships their modular environment, I likely wont be looking at other modular environments much. I like their focus on workflow and the way it smartly auto-wires itself. I like the new Racks wiring, but if I have a filter block and it is wired with various modulations, FM source etc, and I want to try a different filter, everything has to be re-wired. For me, it crosses that threshold where I just wont bother. I found it inviting what Bitwig showed at NAMM where a different filter was just dropped onto the existing wired filter and no rewiring was needed.

I also like that the Bitwig Grids have polyphony, unison and MPE capability. It is unlikely to ever have the sonic diversity and I doubt the sound quality will match Blocks, but it will also likely use significantly less CPU and because of the workflow, ease of saving presets etc, I may actually make good use of it.

mutable in softube modular costs money... there is a soft modular hype, and i have softube modular, cherry audio voltage modular, reaktor 6.3+ [full] and vcv.
there is also solorack, less known, but it seems it is great modular.
and the free modular from full bucket. which modulars do i forget, bazille? semi-modular.
reason is modular, and has rack extension which is a "real" modular, but with fixed modules, they can be patched the way you like it, but the modules are fixed.

and the modular fx! BYOME, MXX (or MXXX?), quadrant from glitchmachines (only 3,50 from pluginboutique).

[glokraw]

I've been asking for vector graphics for years in the same vein as max msp etc ...N.I> just doesn't care about that

Ever dealt with a 20+ years old codebase? From product management point of view, would you do a high effort low turnaround solution rather than the other way around?

Like making 2020 model year BMW from 1990 Ford parts warehouse?

Regardless the paths NI take, I think the main thing is to maintain 5.x,
6.x and the future releases, such that they can all be downloaded,
installed, and reinstalled next to each other without bothering each other,
since disk space is cheap, and time lost sorting prior projects is money lost.

While that priority might cost some sales with people that already have
'all they need', keeping the legacy ensembles alive would also
promote future paid upgrades, which presumably would fund
the changes and functions that both lifers and resistors desire.
Cheers

[vurt]

I get where NI may be going, and a Rack eco-system similar to VCV, Cherry, etc. would not be unwelcome - I'd love to see incentive for Mutable, PSP, to sell bespoke blocks, locked down the same way the Monark blocks are, etc.

Does the Mutable stuff in VCV cost money?

it does. but its not expensive and the money goes to charity iirc.
not sure about the one in softtube?

[EvilDragon]

Regardless the paths NI take, I think the main thing is to maintain 5.x,
6.x and the future releases, such that they can all be downloaded,
installed, and reinstalled next to each other without bothering each other,
since disk space is cheap, and time lost sorting prior projects is money lost.

This was always the case with NI products. Major versions were side-by-side installs, not overwrites.

[JoeCat]

I'm fine with Block / Rack ecosystem that includes both free and paid modules - I'd just like to be able to work within that system for my own use without approval from NI. I think with both VCV and Cherry you can create code your own modules and of course use them in racks without first authorizing them and making them public. That's the only aspect I find problematic.

I'd probably never finish exploring Eurorakt anyway, but it seems like a missed opportunity on NI's part.