Resonating sound recreation - need help

[Tagirijus]

Hi there,

this one is similar to my other topic about the MFlanger, but this time I am more direct. I want to recreate a sound with effects. I have made two dry examples and rendered three different wet versions, since the effect from Reaktor seems to be alternating.

First sound:
https://www.tagirijus.de/clients/tmp/01_dry.mp3
https://www.tagirijus.de/clients/tmp/02_wet.mp3
https://www.tagirijus.de/clients/tmp/03_wet2.mp3
https://www.tagirijus.de/clients/tmp/04_wet3.mp3

Second sound:
https://www.tagirijus.de/clients/tmp/05_dry_b.mp3
https://www.tagirijus.de/clients/tmp/06_wet_b.mp3
https://www.tagirijus.de/clients/tmp/07_wet_b2.mp3
https://www.tagirijus.de/clients/tmp/08_wet_b3.mp3

As you can hear the effect seems to work like some kind of resonator, I guess ...? Also it just makes this slightly distorted synth sound nearly like a waterphone - which is so great. I just love this high metallic but still organic sound. I tried out so many different things already and I am so lost. I tried MFlanger, MComb, even the Resonator in the generators matrix in MSF - I just cannot recreate this sound. In Reaktor it is an effect module called "flanGer" (it's inside the Icepad ensemble, if some of you know this) and it looks like this:



Vojtech told me that it could be something else than a simple flanger, since it has two delay lines.

Hm. Help, please? Anybody?

[werzel]

How much does the new sound rely on the original sound's harmonic content?
What does the effect do to a sine wave, square wave or saw wave?
Sounds almost like a primitive comb filter (not enough delays to get a pure tone) but I can't tell due to the original sound's complexity.
I'm not familiar with Reaktor, can you edit the effect lines shown in the picture? If so, you could try isolating each line to discover the individual effects upon the original sound and recreate using baby steps.

[Tagirijus]

First thanks for your reply. Good idea to just use a simple sound for testing:


Dry Sinus:
https://www.tagirijus.de/clients/tmp/09_sinus.mp3

Sinus with the Reaktor effect:
https://www.tagirijus.de/clients/tmp/10 ... Langer.mp3

Dry Square:
https://www.tagirijus.de/clients/tmp/11_square.mp3

Square + fLanger from Reaktor:
https://www.tagirijus.de/clients/tmp/12 ... Langer.mp3


Seems like the effect is nearly only audible when there is a rich frequency spectrum. You wrote that it might be achievable with a comb already ... like Vojtech. I reaaally think I might not understand hwo to use the MComb then after all. I tried so much things already ...

I will also try to seperate the delay lines in the Reaktor module. Thanks for any further help.

[Tagirijus]

Ok maybe very slowly I do get something out of MComb:

Code: Select all

$eNp1U8FO4zAQvfMV1nBdWttxEleKgxaUSiu1UJGKPbvJUCIcp+s4FezXr+JSyCJxiZU3M++9mdFk16+tIUd0fdNZBWxGgaCturqxewWDf7qScJ1fZOvbrt316H1j9z25VMCAXC4R652uXhTQWRrxCcICJMUINcajY+8V4Werd1u9e0cc-hnQVm8K+IwyyWnEI56KaYiFWBolnKYRi4BcbrTtnG61gis6o4mYQEGasdFNia7R5iR92xmjDz3W68H4ZqOdblfL+422aBRQIEXd+M6VzV9UwKiUP0S6ALJ6KA+m8R5DhClIGf2KcgV8zF3r19Xy-sZ01cuJZpxIqduDwZ9VNTjtsTii9X3QezyPXMZskUjIs9Xyvg9fSgqrdwbrYHwyIDpjaSp5uhCMUgFk3dWo4K5zrTaQZ6Ep9OjIcjDmQds9KhDB2KM2A44EIqWUCrkQiYiBfFTc6RYVnLZDGLn6VAXyTkRndBz9J1OSiFhSGvH4DN-o6mU4hGAcfcrMv7f2yx7R+dDnfy5lzOOEMRnR9DuX-DuXUTJ1KdmE6YvLeBqc51lhj2i6A87zrGz2VhtSbovN5qEoi21Y2vFEK8bk8s1WZIV2758V8BGZj7s7Pf14MqPlnufZ76b2z+s8K7vBVUg2Dp9CC+HEaKg8p8zPRRfZfHpyfX7xD90uFdw=

Seems like the key is to modulate the frequency of MComb to make it sound organic, right? Any more tips are appreciated!

[ZentralmassivSound]

Reminds me a bit of my "cinematic piano atmosphere" preset. I think it I put it in the online exchange or it's even in the regular factory presets in MXXX. doesn't sound quite like a waterphone, but it uses the comb filter and I think with a bit of tweaking you could get there. I'm not at the PC right now, but i'll check later.

[Tagirijus]

Cool, thanks. Could not find it in the factory presets of MXXX, when it's called "Cinematic Piano Atmosphere". Looking forward to it!

[ZentralmassivSound]

So, I found it, it's a factory preset named "Cinematic Piano Maker (midi in)". There is lots of delay and reverb on it to make it more atmospherical, it's burried in the modular box, you could turn that of to get dry results. I would crank the volume (using the multiparameter), then in modulator 1 increase the max comb feedback to nearly 100%, and then raise the value of modulator 2, that is the "base frequency" used for feedback notes. Modulator 2 changes the comb frequency "randomly" upon receiving midi notes, and by employing the transformation curve it is meant to set it to the tonic, fourth, fifth and octave randomly. I never checked if that is even true, but it changes the frequency at least, hahaha. So for some waterphone sound, you could turn of the transformation shape and fiddle with the range so it results in all sorts of frequencies. Biggest problem though seems to be the feedback itself, it is difficult to reproduce a waterphone like behaviour.

[werzel]

There are a couple of feedback loops present in the Reaktor diagram, could that be where the comb sound (waterphone?)
is being produced?

[Tagirijus]

So, I found it, it's a factory preset named "Cinematic Piano Maker (midi in)". (...)

I checked the preset and found it ... I misunderstood "Factory preset" with "Factory device" first. That's why I did not find it, hehe - sorry!

I did all your points and could not 100% really get it, but still I think I see a new way to get an interesting sound of MComb: in the end it can generate a resonating and feedback-y sound with a mod, which is controlled by the input level and "ducks" the gain of the comb band. I will experiment with this technique as well. Thank you so much!

There are a couple of feedback loops present in the Reaktor diagram, could that be where the comb sound (waterphone?)
is being produced?

I am nearly sure that these feedbacks are creating this resonating / comb sound. It was just that I did not really now how to recreate it with Melda tools. What I have learned: often times it is better not to try to recreate a sound by a "schematic", hehe.


Ps: Sorry for the late reply, people. I am still so ill right now ... never got such a flu, I guess.

[ZentralmassivSound]

So, I found it, it's a factory preset named "Cinematic Piano Maker (midi in)". (...)

I checked the preset and found it ... I misunderstood "Factory preset" with "Factory device" first. That's why I did not find it, hehe - sorry!

I did all your points and could not 100% really get it, but still I think I see a new way to get an interesting sound of MComb: in the end it can generate a resonating and feedback-y sound with a mod, which is controlled by the input level and "ducks" the gain of the comb band. I will experiment with this technique as well. Thank you so much!

[...]

Ps: Sorry for the late reply, people. I am still so ill right now ... never got such a flu, I guess.

Yeah I didn't really get to 100% waterphone either. I guess it could be feasible in MSF once it is there?

Get better soon!

[Tagirijus]

1. I am working on it... some kind of. That's why I started this thread, hehe. By the way: are you no beta tester + preset creator for MSF?!?? I hope you are !!

2. Thanks for the the getting-better-wishes.

[ZentralmassivSound]

Right now I totally don't have the time for it unfortunately. though I must say, with each video of Chandler I'm getting a bit more interested so maybe some time I will jump in

[Tagirijus]

I just cannot recreate the sound ... I am so damn lost. I already put many hours into this sound and Reaktor just makes something special here. Something I just cannot recreate using Melda tools:

https://www.tagirijus.de/clients/tmp/13_dry-wet-new.mp3

[Tagirijus]

I managed to tweak the "flanger" settings to an extreme, while using only a simple sine wave. Please, you tell me what kind of effect this reall is ... this is no flanger, right?

https://www.tagirijus.de/clients/tmp/14_no-flanger.mp3

When I am using MFlanger, the frequency modulation goes in one direction. On a simple spectrum this Reaktor "flanger" looks like it is going in two directions from the source sine wave ... am I right? What is this? ...