FYI!! Melda SoundFactory ON SALE til JUNE 30

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
SoundPorn
KVRian
1052 posts since 24 Jul, 2018

Post Sun May 12, 2019 8:17 am

And for those comparing this to Zebra must of missed the boat on MPowerSynth which been had the block-lanes architecture from Zebra.

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sfd
KVRian
1475 posts since 14 Jul, 2013 from Sweden

Post Sun May 12, 2019 8:18 am

Nice try Melda.
But...sorry I'm not in for this gimmick either...I'm a musician.

Moves on with life...

David
KVRAF
1910 posts since 5 Jan, 2003 from Brookings, OR

Post Sun May 12, 2019 8:26 am

tyjodamofo wrote:
Sun May 12, 2019 7:46 am

My apologies. I did the ABC Pads and the Bass Chops, if those are two of the four you downloaded. I now understand what that last feature list where you can check editable is about. Probably should have researched or asked before I uploaded them, was just to blown away and excited from working with MSF. I notice now that I am unable to edit them as well :( (the edit button up top is grayed out) at least now I know to check the editable tag when saving a module. Sorry for littering those on the online exchange, but I’m glad they showed up. Thank you for your help :)
I see, yeah, that's a stone lots of folks have stubbed toes on! Thread here about it:

viewtopic.php?f=138&t=524375

Actually, I just noticed that if you're in edit mode when you open one of yours with edit greyed out, it opens in Edit mode anyway, even tho Edit is STILL greyed out. So from there, they can be saved as new devices with Editable checked. That's probably already described in that thread, and I didn't quite follow. And will probably be made not possible when folks start sell devices and want to "protect" them.

Liking ABC pads, btw!

I always end up adding lfos to mixer channels like you've got, just to see what that might do, and it works cool here, when set to slow rates esp.

Image

Thanks for the postings!

David
KVRAF
1910 posts since 5 Jan, 2003 from Brookings, OR

Post Sun May 12, 2019 8:32 am

sfd wrote:
Sun May 12, 2019 8:18 am
Nice try Melda.
But...sorry I'm not in for this gimmick either...I'm a musician.

Moves on with life...

MUSIC?!? Who's got time for that with all this gear to fiddle with!

I wonder what sort of sign one should put on the
"thread-door" to keep musicians from stumbling in…? Suggestions?

User avatar
bmanic
KVRAF
8678 posts since 3 Feb, 2003 from Finland, Espoo

Post Sun May 12, 2019 8:40 am

This thing has potential for sure but there are some extremely severe UI design flaws here and some omissions that keep this at "mediocre" level as it is now.

The already mentioned FM section is exactly how something like this would look if a programmer without any synthesis experience designs a FM section based purely on wikipedia articles on how FM works. It's completely useless as it is right now. There's no way in hell I'm even touching it even though I know FM quite well.

FM needs to be a matrix like it is in Sytrus / Native Instruments FM8. Period. That's by far the best way to implement it.

Another similar problem is the Additive oscillator section. It's a complete train wreck in how it is designed. Absolutely horrible to tweak as soon as you have more than a few partials enabled. Just having each partial a separate row that demands click + drag for it's volume, tuning and panning is just plain stupid. These need to be in a matrix or in a row system where one can utilize simple click+drag over ALL partials and all of the wanted settings. Something that takes literally seconds to do in other additive synths can take several frustrating minutes in MSoundFactory.. and you get the added benefit of developing carpal tunnel syndrome from the constant uncomfortable mouse movements and precision needed.

There's also a strange omission in the Additive section, or I just haven't found a solution yet.. where is the ability to tweak the phase of partial??

So yeah, so far this thing IS powerful and flexible but has absolutely 100% ALL of the negatives of Melda products in general. It's like these things are designed on a spreadsheet without actually thinking about usability at all. It's like running photo editing software on a command line. It can be done but it's plain stupid.

Especially if this is going to sell for 299 euros and supposedly try to encourage professional sound designers and create a proper eco-system of high quality content, it NEEDS to be much better designed from a usability standpoint.

Voitech, if you are reading these comments, please consider hiring a professional UI designer for your team or at the very least read some basic beginner books on UI design. You are a talented coder and DSP guru but you are most definitely on a "my first design" level when it comes to interfaces.. and I'm NOT talking about graphics here. Just basic usability.

Having said that, the potential and premise of Sound Factory is amazing! Now you just need to actually execute probably THE most important thing: Make it fun, intuitive and inspiring to actually use!
"Wisdom is wisdom, regardless of the idiot who said it." -an idiot

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sfd
KVRian
1475 posts since 14 Jul, 2013 from Sweden

Post Sun May 12, 2019 8:44 am

I wonder what sort of sign one should put on the
"thread-door" to keep musicians from stumbling in…? Suggestions?
The Melda logo

User avatar
bmanic
KVRAF
8678 posts since 3 Feb, 2003 from Finland, Espoo

Post Sun May 12, 2019 8:49 am

DocSnyder wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 9:11 am
plexuss wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 9:09 am
Dont forget its an (early?) beta. Relax. Let the guy code.
He already wrote it is how it is...
He is notoriously difficult to deal with when it comes to feature changes or requests. Don't expect any real changes. Minor things may be added or changed but larger requests, especially anything that goes away from his "Melda framework" system, gets immediately ignored. This is why the usability of his user interfaces hasn't changed almost at all in many years. Yeah, the graphics have changed but those mean absolutely diddly squat.. UI is much more than just graphics.
"Wisdom is wisdom, regardless of the idiot who said it." -an idiot

User avatar
Niowiad
KVRian
688 posts since 25 Jan, 2017

Post Sun May 12, 2019 9:02 am

bmanic wrote:
Sun May 12, 2019 8:40 am
This thing has potential for sure but there are some extremely severe UI design flaws here and some omissions that keep this at "mediocre" level as it is now.

The already mentioned FM section is exactly how something like this would look if a programmer without any synthesis experience designs a FM section based purely on wikipedia articles on how FM works. It's completely useless as it is right now. There's no way in hell I'm even touching it even though I know FM quite well.

FM needs to be a matrix like it is in Sytrus / Native Instruments FM8. Period. That's by far the best way to implement it.

Another similar problem is the Additive oscillator section. It's a complete train wreck in how it is designed. Absolutely horrible to tweak as soon as you have more than a few partials enabled. Just having each partial a separate row that demands click + drag for it's volume, tuning and panning is just plain stupid. These need to be in a matrix or in a row system where one can utilize simple click+drag over ALL partials and all of the wanted settings. Something that takes literally seconds to do in other additive synths can take several frustrating minutes in MSoundFactory.. and you get the added benefit of developing carpal tunnel syndrome from the constant uncomfortable mouse movements and precision needed.

There's also a strange omission in the Additive section, or I just haven't found a solution yet.. where is the ability to tweak the phase of partial??

So yeah, so far this thing IS powerful and flexible but has absolutely 100% ALL of the negatives of Melda products in general. It's like these things are designed on a spreadsheet without actually thinking about usability at all. It's like running photo editing software on a command line. It can be done but it's plain stupid.

Especially if this is going to sell for 299 euros and supposedly try to encourage professional sound designers and create a proper eco-system of high quality content, it NEEDS to be much better designed from a usability standpoint.

Voitech, if you are reading these comments, please consider hiring a professional UI designer for your team or at the very least read some basic beginner books on UI design. You are a talented coder and DSP guru but you are most definitely on a "my first design" level when it comes to interfaces.. and I'm NOT talking about graphics here. Just basic usability.

Having said that, the potential and premise of Sound Factory is amazing! Now you just need to actually execute probably THE most important thing: Make it fun, intuitive and inspiring to actually use!
I agree on the Additive part.
FM doesn't seem as bad to me, as a Sytrus/FM8/Blue2 user. I was a little wierded out by the matrix not having labels for rows and column but I find it quick to get used to it. And the "buttons" for the modulation targets in the matrix are quite cool for usability.
Far from perfect but not many usability issues, to me at least.

The Additive module is a different story and quite hard use effectively and fast, as you said.

Overall you made fair points.
Last edited by Niowiad on Sun May 12, 2019 9:07 am, edited 2 times in total.

David
KVRAF
1910 posts since 5 Jan, 2003 from Brookings, OR

Post Sun May 12, 2019 9:04 am

sfd wrote:
Sun May 12, 2019 8:44 am
I wonder what sort of sign one should put on the
"thread-door" to keep musicians from stumbling in…? Suggestions?
The Melda logo
:hihi:

User avatar
plexuss
KVRAF
3836 posts since 8 Jul, 2009

Post Sun May 12, 2019 9:09 am

bmanic wrote:
Sun May 12, 2019 8:49 am
DocSnyder wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 9:11 am
plexuss wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 9:09 am
Dont forget its an (early?) beta. Relax. Let the guy code.
He already wrote it is how it is...
He is notoriously difficult to deal with when it comes to feature changes or requests. Don't expect any real changes. Minor things may be added or changed but larger requests, especially anything that goes away from his "Melda framework" system, gets immediately ignored. This is why the usability of his user interfaces hasn't changed almost at all in many years. Yeah, the graphics have changed but those mean absolutely diddly squat.. UI is much more than just graphics.
Vojetch won't listen. He thinks his UI/UX are "The most advanced user interface on the market" as mentioned on every product page. The best we can do is keep bringing up the issues and not buy his products. I bought MSF only because it was $30 and it at least gives me a better interface than MPS. I can't use MPS because it's such a poorly designed workflow. I figured for $30 at least I can get something I can use because of the signal lanes now being used across the synth. I couldn't justify selling MPS because of the ridiculously high 20%-of-list transfer fee. Before I saw the additional $20 discount, it was $50 for the upgrade and frankly that wouldn't have been worth it.

Anyway... those of us who know what good design is, see the potential with Melda but also are frustrated because the Vojetch's stubborness - we can see how great these products could be with a better UI and workflow. Alas... :dog:

User avatar
cptgone
KVRAF
6694 posts since 1 Aug, 2003

Post Sun May 12, 2019 9:13 am

2020 wrote:
Sun May 12, 2019 3:38 am
If anybody needs a referral code for first time purchse, here's mine:

MELDA1069759
I own MXXX, but didn't buy it from Melda directly (got it from Plugin Boutique) and this coupon works for me.
(On the other hand, I wasn't offered any further discount, except for 10 Melda "credits")

David
KVRAF
1910 posts since 5 Jan, 2003 from Brookings, OR

Post Sun May 12, 2019 9:20 am

bmanic wrote:
Sun May 12, 2019 8:40 am
This thing has potential for sure but there are some extremely severe UI design flaws here and

Having said that, the potential and premise of Sound Factory is amazing! Now you just need to actually execute probably THE most important thing: Make it fun, intuitive and inspiring to actually use!
Fun, intuitive, inspiring…?

2 outta 3 works for me!

What I love most about it, right now, job done, product success!, is that, to ME, it's as much a synth BUILDING tool as it can be a straight up synth/instrument…which is just what I want (often, anyway…so does that mean NOT a musician? :o :( Maybe…I find I…don't care). And compared to all the other building tools I've so far tried (mainly Reaktor and Max, but also Kontakt, Falcon, and Halion), it BECOMES almost intuitive, once you do the work needed to learn to tools, certainly WAY more accessible than Reaktor or Max, or Kontakt/Falcon scripting, and with WAY more power than Halion, AFAICTell. And the available tools in the kit, no matter how unituitive, when they are, is simply stunning…

Plus it really sounds great to me. All this is just "to me…" Folks are different; what a concept:)
Last edited by David on Sun May 12, 2019 11:38 am, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
Niowiad
KVRian
688 posts since 25 Jan, 2017

Post Sun May 12, 2019 9:22 am

plexuss wrote:
Sun May 12, 2019 9:09 am
bmanic wrote:
Sun May 12, 2019 8:49 am
DocSnyder wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 9:11 am
plexuss wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 9:09 am
Dont forget its an (early?) beta. Relax. Let the guy code.
He already wrote it is how it is...
He is notoriously difficult to deal with when it comes to feature changes or requests. Don't expect any real changes. Minor things may be added or changed but larger requests, especially anything that goes away from his "Melda framework" system, gets immediately ignored. This is why the usability of his user interfaces hasn't changed almost at all in many years. Yeah, the graphics have changed but those mean absolutely diddly squat.. UI is much more than just graphics.
Vojetch won't listen. He thinks his UI/UX are "The most advanced user interface on the market" as mentioned on every product page. The best we can do is keep bringing up the issues and not buy his products. I bought MSF only because it was $30 and it at least gives me a better interface than MPS. I can't use MPS because it's such a poorly designed workflow. I figured for $30 at least I can get something I can use because of the signal lanes now being used across the synth. I couldn't justify selling MPS because of the ridiculously high 20%-of-list transfer fee. Before I saw the additional $20 discount, it was $50 for the upgrade and frankly that wouldn't have been worth it.

Anyway... those of us who know what good design is, see the potential with Melda but also are frustrated because the Vojetch's stubborness - we can see how great these products could be with a better UI and workflow. Alas... :dog:
I consider the Melda GUIs far from optimal design but often times (eg. I could never stand and never bought MPS or other Mplugins with overcomplicated interfaces for the job) the positives outweight the negatives. I well understand whoever can't feel the same though.

User avatar
exponent1
KVRist
382 posts since 10 Nov, 2018 from India

Post Sun May 12, 2019 9:28 am

bmanic wrote:
Sun May 12, 2019 8:40 am
This thing has potential for sure but there are some extremely severe UI design flaws here and some omissions that keep this at "mediocre" level as it is now.

The already mentioned FM section is exactly how something like this would look if a programmer without any synthesis experience designs a FM section based purely on wikipedia articles on how FM works. It's completely useless as it is right now. There's no way in hell I'm even touching it even though I know FM quite well.

FM needs to be a matrix like it is in Sytrus / Native Instruments FM8. Period. That's by far the best way to implement it.

Another similar problem is the Additive oscillator section. It's a complete train wreck in how it is designed. Absolutely horrible to tweak as soon as you have more than a few partials enabled. Just having each partial a separate row that demands click + drag for it's volume, tuning and panning is just plain stupid. These need to be in a matrix or in a row system where one can utilize simple click+drag over ALL partials and all of the wanted settings. Something that takes literally seconds to do in other additive synths can take several frustrating minutes in MSoundFactory.. and you get the added benefit of developing carpal tunnel syndrome from the constant uncomfortable mouse movements and precision needed.

There's also a strange omission in the Additive section, or I just haven't found a solution yet.. where is the ability to tweak the phase of partial??

So yeah, so far this thing IS powerful and flexible but has absolutely 100% ALL of the negatives of Melda products in general. It's like these things are designed on a spreadsheet without actually thinking about usability at all. It's like running photo editing software on a command line. It can be done but it's plain stupid.

Especially if this is going to sell for 299 euros and supposedly try to encourage professional sound designers and create a proper eco-system of high quality content, it NEEDS to be much better designed from a usability standpoint.

Voitech, if you are reading these comments, please consider hiring a professional UI designer for your team or at the very least read some basic beginner books on UI design. You are a talented coder and DSP guru but you are most definitely on a "my first design" level when it comes to interfaces.. and I'm NOT talking about graphics here. Just basic usability.

Having said that, the potential and premise of Sound Factory is amazing! Now you just need to actually execute probably THE most important thing: Make it fun, intuitive and inspiring to actually use!
How do the FM and Additive Synthesis modules in MSF compare to the way UVI Falcon does it? As I see it, Sytrus, FM8 are dedicated FM synths and as such can't be compared to a modular system like MSF which is currently in beta and already offers all the functionality. Similarly as you wouldn't compare the Wavetable module of MSF to Serum or Icarus or even Massive.

User avatar
bmanic
KVRAF
8678 posts since 3 Feb, 2003 from Finland, Espoo

Post Sun May 12, 2019 10:01 am

UVI Falcon is another example of absolutely horrendous UI design. It is notoriously bad as far as I can tell.. so yeah, using that as a counter example just shows on what level MSF is.

.. and of course you can directly compare Sytrus or FM8 matrix part to MSF. There is literally no reason for MSF not to have it setup as a matrix instead of a bunch of sliders and clickable junk on the UI. It is after all a "module" within MSF and could thus have it's own proper UI for the FM section.

Same goes for the Additive section.. or anything really. All of the modules that are separate entities could have their own proper UI which is suitable for whatever task they perform. This is basically the main curse of Melda thinking in general. He has a set rigid framework. I suspect this is simply convenient from a coding point of view. It's the only good reason for such a rigid framework to be present.
"Wisdom is wisdom, regardless of the idiot who said it." -an idiot

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