MSF Online Preset Exchange—Discuss

[David]

I'm thinking it would be useful, esp. at this early stage in the MSF game, for a thread like this to exist. Any reasons I should rethink this, do it some other way/place, whatever…? TIA!

Example post-type:

"I just posted a couple of things to the Online Exchange to test it. One is a Global Preset with no associated Device (Flangowacko), and the other is a Device with a couple of Instrument presets (Bartok w FX). And there's a 2nd version of Bartok… called Bartok w FX Fixed?, because the first one was apparently affected by a bug that's hopefully now fixed, in which GPresets would be saved with a different associated Device (yes, totally confusing!) and would load with the wrong Instrument presets, blah, blah. The "fix" in the second version corrects this, I hope. I loaded the RIGHT device while the original GPreset was also loaded, and sent it out with that name change, and it appears to be OK when loaded back in from the Online download. Reports welcome!"

FYI, here's how to use the copy/paste code function in MSF and in this forum for sharing stuff, too:

You use the icons highlighted in the screen grab below, in the Toolbar, which copy whatever you've got loaded, or replace that when you paste. Here you click the icon in the full reply editor, and paste into the space between the code brackets, in the usual way.



This process works for GPresets and Devices, but doesn't seem to capture Device Presets, which can be found in the system folder for MSF (Windows: C:\Users\{username}\AppData\Roaming\MeldaProduction
OSX: HOME/Library/Application support/MeldaProduction), and zipped for attaching here, to supplement a code paste for a device that has presets.

[whatever device].mInstrument
[whatever device presets].presets

AND DON'T MISS: Many of the FX blocks in MSF, from already long-existing Melda plugins, ALSO have Preset Browsers with Submit/Download buttons—e.g. MRhythmatizer—and have MANY downloadable presets too. MRhy., FE, has a couple of hundred

[jmg8]

It is better to post code here for checking problems and such.
You see, the online exchange does not allow deleting of presets. So we dont want to flood it with broken presets and test examples.
It is supposed to be used for sharing good presets with each other.
Do you know how to do the copy code trick here in the forum?

[David]

Good point, thanks, and an excellent proof of need for this thread, too, I'd say, assuming there's no better place for it, or something somewhere for this purpose already out there.

Also there's no easy to locate info for newcomers, that I could find anyway, on exactly how the exchange handles presets with and without associated devices, and a test (with presets of both sorts that I wanted to share anyway) seemed like a good idea, which is how I spotted the wrong-device problem, too. Also useful info to find here. And, yes, I've done the code thing, but again, some explanation of, or link to info on exactly how that works wouldn't be amiss either, on the same issue: presets? Devices? Device presets? Automatically handled depending on what's loaded at the time, or…?.

So, what's been the protocol? Check everything with code first? Any other common problems, tips, best practices, etc.? It seemed to me that a forum would be an easier place to add info and comments on individual posts, compared to adding info to the device or in the EZ Screen, for example.

I did a search first here but didn't find much, except an issue that didn't appear to have a solution: Someone deleted some of the downloads he'd gotten, not knowing that they couldn't be downloaded again, for some reason, and wanted them back! If there's a fix for that, another good topic here:)

[MeldaProduction]

Yeah, well, no protocol for now etc... Hopefully one day.

[tylerdedera]

Hi all!
I’m absolutely loving MSF!! I really could go on about how amazing this thing is, but I wanted to ask about presets within devices, whether or not they’re showing up within the online exchange. I made a few devices and wanted to know if the presets I made within the ‘Bass Chops’ device are showing up?
I’m still relatively new to Melda plugins and I’m hardly computer savvy, so I’m not sure how to post code or anything about code really.

[David]

Hi all!
I’m absolutely loving MSF!! I really could go on about how amazing this thing is, but I wanted to ask about presets within devices, whether or not they’re showing up within the online exchange. I made a few devices and wanted to know if the presets I made within the ‘Bass Chops’ device are showing up?
I’m still relatively new to Melda plugins and I’m hardly computer savvy, so I’m not sure how to post code or anything about code really.

They're not showing up here, sorry to say; see upper windows in the top screen grab. I wonder if mine that should come with Bartok…Fixed show up for you? They do for me when I re-launch MSF and then load the download, as in the lower windows:



If yes to the Bartok presets on your end, then keep trying:) If no to them, too, then let's keep asking for help here…

As for code, just load what you want to share, Device or GPreset, then click on the left-hand icon of the two in the circle at far lower right on the main window (Open the Toolbar button if you don't see it) with the double rectangles, for copy…, then come here and in the full posting editor, click on the circled icon after the quote icon in that toolbar… then system-paste between the html brackets. Works in reverse when you want to grab some posted code, of course, using the right-hand icon next to Copy… to Paste… HTH!

[David]

Pasting this from another thread since it should be here to be most useful, I'd venture…

If we make a device/instrument (whatever you call it) and share it through the online presets will it load as a device or just a preset (like the MPS presets already there without the device screen)?
And if it will load as a device with the module screen, will the presets that we make within the specific device load after sending it through the online exchange?

I just posted a couple of things to the Online Exchange to test this. One is a Global Preset with no associated Device (Flangowacko), and the other is a Device with a couple of Instrument presets (Bartok w FX). And there's a 2nd version of Bartok… called Bartok w FX Fixed?, because the first one was still affected by a bug that's hopefully now fixed, in which GPresets would be saved with a different associated Device and would load with the wrong Instrument presets (I know, all totally confusing). The "fix" in the second version corrects this, I hope. I loaded the RIGHT device while the original GPreset was loaded, and sent it out with that name change, and it appeared to be OK when loaded back in from the Online download; (whew…)

Would be glad to hear back from anyone about if the fix worked.

So I see the ‘FlangoWhack #1’ & the ‘Bartok Plus w FX Fixed?’ presets. It looks like the Flango does have a couple device screen knobs and the Bartok does not have any presets within it. I notice that the ‘Bass Chops’ is the only one in the online exchange that has presets, but I don’t know if I can only see them because they’re saved on my computer. Do any presets show up for you in the Bass Chops preset?

So, it looks like the Device presets are only showing up on the original sharer's machine, and not getting included in the Submit Preset process; too bad, maybe there's a fix for that…

In the meantime, seems to me we could use this thread to either post code for devices with presets, if that will actually work any better, or zip up the .minstrument and .preset files and post them here as attachments, which should work when placed inside the system folder for Devices and Presets, here:

Windows: C:\Users\{username}\AppData\Roaming\MeldaProduction
OSX: HOME/Library/Application support/MeldaProduction

Here's the Bartok…Fixed zips to try out, please report:)

And here's the Copied code, let's see how THAT does:

Code: Select all

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BzynZY7B8NDgEckiFg1Uh-CuBuQ09EyHeupU55wUe3gLQjLl9VlvZui2bt7xw0P4CibwOv9bn+jO0bWeFEG8D5oqrfXCWrGCES3DSl+vMrXZJGuDbChd+K7hWXO2Dq2QXI-KWulB-NQRiKcdvrQuLnOwDsGQmI-oz1V1eflbERyVV0pIKp1jTSm38NuDpWI9qWnG7D8OSuYvsXyhzujLtrcUtQyxlZh9aJSsZlc1k2ybMcbCgEB3avkMVyopeKI5pbeQuYSzIoqq0FFQlhhzySu4ZE6+DeT6JldLmeBvyJXMc8Ypyug27MB41Y8PNPt+M-WSB-AF-DfESIKKax-YCuHZ6bDbiP8ljq4rVQT8OlTwOvMVkLgQxb+LRT9V5OgX-a2K-e3djsc4d1EEeeFcCaFjcF9Mrmc54S2RYvAjUbaCptjc5J-agZHjaB1I5LIx3Wng-ipAu8YhNPFadKW+PlcnR1MEmZ-sQK9nEmLwaQFXNtzeA6jijDZcMX0xfC6W3s8h2QHLYKsMlGxbbZQ2vYiKI25QItnfP-SKbjHGHcxsLKBznlWwy9dHLa6G+xS7b+mleySDG7CgNd7pIEhXyqoj28KviL0PbfBm1BrZ+fufN5N5o6IMbPIHAncmfKL+GufxivwSzLR-81Q7V1OqqWbj6mMU86UXhDNxEEzcAySLZUlMLuotkGkb6B7gscNF3Pb9tjeej8PHRC-5XulEy9b3gqRHIxCrU36bGy+AMPKoRhqPITUbTZvrbXQN-EYOvoPe5MbsK4iRazGRQHHyYuInstC5lEEnQnT14Mv0I4cwLpKqGMD9xdfFtLiNPvev6aVnneKEMdXOraph1DQI486UbpF9cz+a+NL9acu7FSRglaVlxXyau76c9a0TMtaoYjhJvlP4unf5007xxHi3Nl9pROJJxVp48WPixriFb-SxB-kNDXX8SRl4ynYHueOyp5UrJHpLIHWX3zU6rJ1WAV8Z62TIx159+ryPUTPFeVTWXS+pSzM3XfGsFzzVd8axKJ0xFkNDcZBXQWhepckZVUNV3k8j71vmLfD---8sLt-v0Yfnc712-+yv6sPxjMTm9nfzfZPhucTP5cnHaPXvvdM8+tFvN9K28LqXYyx-d7nm-f391+vHsyf3w4cvl6aR7Noq7va-t9qq0Jeuh2Y3mqmJDCzvutG4WSV8t4Nx3l-rHphazdLPce+Nk2u+0huEiGkn1fUr+20-ZdspImll3tVZz26+Cxp3avwGR2W0W

We'll get there:)

[David]

FYI:
There's about 2 dozen submissions in the MSF Online Preset Exchange now.

Also, I've added some Exchange related edits to an earlier post (here, page 33:
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=524931&p=7399211#p7399211 )
about Presets in general. Here's the edited section:

In terms of workflow, the main things for me to get were:

• Global Presets are the same as what "normal synths/plugins" think of as presets, patches or snapshots: i.e., the current plugin state captured for recall. Created in either Edit or Device mode using the top-most Preset-button Browser, and also loaded and managed (a backup button is included) from there. These files are only easily accessed and managed with this internal MSF browser; in the system/Finder, they're all packed into a huge, single .xml file (see the thread ref'ed above) that some may know how to do something with, but not me.

• Saved Devices are the same (current state of the plugin), except they include to ability to save and load presets for JUST THAT DEVICE, which only capture and recall changes made to the EZ-Screen controls for that device, if you've made any of those, in another Preset Browser, only visible in Device (aka Instrument Mode, i.e., not Edit Mode) Mode, when a device is loaded. The button for this browser is right below below the Global Preset button. If you haven't made any EZ-Screen controls, the only other advantage to saving as a Device is that you'll be able to see, manage, and share these file types (xxx.minstrument) in your system file manager/Finder. Once you save some Device presets, these will also be visible in the system/Finder, file type xxx.presets, right next to the .minstrument file they reference.
  EDIT: One other advantage with Devices is that you can add your name and even clickable links to your website and/or email, which may be of interest if you share your work via the Online Exchange system, or in any other way.

Loading and storing either GPresets or Devices when you haven't made an Ez Screen and don't have any Instrument Presets are basically just two ways of doing the same thing, using two different browsing systems. GPresets being the primary, intended, expected choice, apparently.

Online Sharing of either happens in the GPresets Browser and appears to capture whatever's loaded at the time, either a GPreset with no Device if none exists, or a GPreset AND it's associated Instrument and EDIT: Instrument Presets if these exist—apparently, device presets DON'T come through in the Exchange process, which is a shame. BUT these files can be posted as zipped attachments.
(AFAICTell, there's no decision yet on whether Devices will eventually just be called Instruments, or both, as now, or what…)

[Chandlerhimself]

I wouldn’t use the preset exchange to test presets or add anything that isn’t 100% finished. Things can’t be deleted and there is no sorting, so the more bad presets there are the less useful the online exchange. I’d wait until people are more familiar with MSF before adding anything.

[David]

I wouldn’t use the preset exchange to test presets or add anything that isn’t 100% finished. Things can’t be deleted and there is no sorting, so the more bad presets there are the less useful the online exchange. I’d wait until people are more familiar with MSF before adding anything.

The only thing tested so far is the process, not the presets: What happens to DPresets when a Device is put through the Exchange? Now it's clear: They don't make it. Useful to know! Hopefully can be fixed. If not, well, here is a potential solution.

In the absence of any directions, protocols, and as you say, editing, sorting, or any other way to correct anything once it's done, the more known up front about such an inflexible and entirely self-monitored process, the better, wouldn't you agree?

[tylerdedera]

Yeah, I’ve noticed that a lot of the presets on the exchange so far don’t even have device screens. They’re basically one shot MPS presets...which is really kind of unfortunate. I know I’ve shared four devices so far, but I try my best to make sure they have some depth in controllability. Presets will help demonstrate the depth of a device. But I was just looking for direct confirmation that presets within devices will eventually upload and download through the online exchange??
I don’t know the size of a folder with maybe 50 non sample presets, but I can imagine when people start making instruments with multisamples it might be a nightmare for the server.

[David]

I suspect that any changes or fixes to the existing fully automatic Exchange function are very unlikely, which is exactly why I thought to create this thread, in which hopefully many of the limitations of the Auto process could be overcome or worked around. We'll see; like any forum thread, if it even gets used, it'll for sure reflect chaos an endless variety of user perspectives, interest levels, standards, etc. Which will potentially be good, I hope/think!

My personal vision for how presets get shared, and what sort of presets these will be, is that openness and flexibility will be much more interesting than trying to impose any requirements about how polished or standardized a share-worthy creation must be.

There's already in place a detailed set of standards for Instrument (Device) Designers to follow, whether these instruments be for sale, for the Factory Collection, or, perhaps (and why not!), freely shared demos or samples or just gifts (the standards are spelled out here: https://www.meldaproduction.com/doc/MSoundFactory).

I'd say that a preset sharing community would be most interesting if it offered an alternative to that, a parallel world in which requirements were replaced by experiments, polish by imagination, and standardization by the potential for surprise.

The main reason for the standards and requirements in the document linked above, AFAICTell, is to target a certain type of potential user. In other words, it's about marketing: trying to figure out what other users, and explicitly what "most" other users want, in order to get the maximum number of users interested.

What I'd hope for an alternative sharing community is that the focus would be more on sharing stuff users design for themselves, explicitly in contrast (if that's who the user is) to what "most" people are "thought" to want by designers looking for a market. In other words, weird, quirky, unique perspectives and visions welcome! As well as works in progress, provocative ideas worthy of further exploration, odd one-off discoveries, anything that's simply interesting. Stuff for which the concept of being "100% finished" is simply not relevant. That stuff is for the OTHER sort of sharing, imo, which will most likely be for "selling" rather than for "sharing". And which will no doubt be cool, too, of course. I'm not denigrating work for sale. I expect to be extremely interested in whatever becomes available!

The final point I think worth making, for anyone still reading, is that, surely, MSF's tools and potential look very different when you're using it for yourself, without requirements and with no thought of making "products", compared to when you're trying to figure out what potential customers, particularly those who don't have access to the full version, will want. What I want to see in a sharing community, is what gets made from THAT perspective.

For me, already, the way I most often find myself using MSF is with both Modes active and visible, with some sort of Ez Screen visible (one that's simply sufficient, open for revision as needed or to be discovered), along with popped up panels from Edit mode, a way of working only the full version allows, of course. Where else, besides in video posts (hopefully to come), can such a perspective be shared? Why not use the combination of the Exchange process and a thread like this one for posting Device presets and screen shots, and whatever else the Exchange doesn't allow, to do that?

OK, done, thanks for reading, anyone who did:)

[tylerdedera]

Out of curiosity, if I were to open the global preset menu within a device, and submit a preset that I made within that device..would that preset be shared strictly within that device??
I just tried downloading presets in Wobble Factory and noticed that an Online Exchange folder showed up under that devices global presets. Of course it didn't have any presets, but I wonder if this would work. However, I don't want to test it in the case of maybe duplicating presets in the MSF online exchange. Or even if it is possible, maybe it should not be intended this way... Thoughts?

[David]

I bet the Exchange uses exactly the same "engine" as the Code Copying does, so I'd suggest trying that, here, as a safer correctable testing method, compared to activating Submit. Be useful to compare the two methods and find out, anyway.
My $0.02.

[MeldaProduction]

I'd like to eventually make some sort of "user grading", so that the presets submitted to the exchange can be voted as good/crappy and potentially deleted. But with the massive FR income, hard to say when I'll get to that... low priority really