MSF vs Kaleidoscope

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XComposer
KVRist
271 posts since 18 Aug, 2006 from Italy

Post Sat Jan 05, 2019 6:02 am

Thank you! I'm very curious now… This thing of modeling imaginary instruments on a computer is very fascinating for me.
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Mac, OS X 10.11, Logic Pro X

jmg8
KVRAF
1960 posts since 9 Jul, 2015 from UK

Re: MSF vs Kaleidoscope

Post Sat Jan 05, 2019 6:10 am

Yes, its lots of fun.
I don't feel we need to take it too seriously either. For example if you really need to create the exact sound of a violin, then just use a sample.
For me physical modelling is to create new unheard of Frankenstein sounds. Does it really matter if it sounds a bit like metal and glass at the same time? Or if its 10 or 12 cm long? Not to me. I just like making something new and interesting. Then automating some controls create lots of interest in a track. Imagine your new instrument sound morphing shape and material during the song, cool stuff.
i7/16gb/win10,64bit/Live10/MTotal. + Surface Pro 4 (i5)

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XComposer
KVRist
271 posts since 18 Aug, 2006 from Italy

Re: MSF vs Kaleidoscope

Post Sat Jan 05, 2019 6:27 am

I agree! I don't want to recreate real instruments, but to imagine "impossible" hybrids, unusual materials or unusual sizes.
My need to understand materials, sizes and shapes is also for me, in order to be able to see approximately the instrument in my mind.
www.GKweb.it
Mac, OS X 10.11, Logic Pro X

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MeldaProduction
KVRAF
11090 posts since 15 Mar, 2008 from Czech republic

Re: MSF vs Kaleidoscope

Post Wed Jan 09, 2019 2:27 pm

And that's what MSF should be for! ;)

I checked Kaleidoscope when they released it, it was buggy as hell and didn't do anything interesting to me. So I checked it again and well it doesn't work at all now :D. It says something about not finding a module to use with my CPU haha :D. Yeah, i9 here, usually the problem is super-old-CPUs :D...

Anyways I definitely plan some graphics based generators etc. But probably not using resonators, that seems like a tremendous waste of CPU to me. But who knows...
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Kalamata Kid
KVRAF
3649 posts since 27 Jul, 2001 from Tarpon Springs, Florida, USA

Re: MSF vs Kaleidoscope

Post Wed May 15, 2019 11:43 am

MeldaProduction wrote:
Wed Jan 09, 2019 2:27 pm
And that's what MSF should be for! ;)

I checked Kaleidoscope when they released it, it was buggy as hell and didn't do anything interesting to me. So I checked it again and well it doesn't work at all now :D. It says something about not finding a module to use with my CPU haha :D. Yeah, i9 here, usually the problem is super-old-CPUs :D...

Anyways I definitely plan some graphics based generators etc. But probably not using resonators, that seems like a tremendous waste of CPU to me. But who knows...
"graphics based generators"?
More than one?
Care to elaborate?
Wow, looking forward to that.
23" 10-touch Monitor and iPad Air as Midi Controllers, iConnectMIDI2+, Windows Pro 10-64bit, i9-9900k, 32 GB RAM.

Kalamata Kid
KVRAF
3649 posts since 27 Jul, 2001 from Tarpon Springs, Florida, USA

Re: MSF vs Kaleidoscope

Post Wed May 15, 2019 11:46 am

jmg8 wrote:
Sat Jan 05, 2019 5:56 am
Thanks werzel.

Xcomposer.
Yes and no. MSF is already quite capable of physically modelling almost anything. However it has to be done manually, it can be tricky, with trial and error.
I recently made a piano in MSF that models the cabinet, soundboard, strings, mallets and dampers. It is all approximate though, the sound designer can not simply input 10 meters of steel and have it sound that way. You have to try to create the sound yourself.
I will share some physical modelling tips and tricks here on the forum soon to help inspire some cool new instruments.
Do you know if physical modeled pianos similar to Pianoteq's will be included in MSF?
23" 10-touch Monitor and iPad Air as Midi Controllers, iConnectMIDI2+, Windows Pro 10-64bit, i9-9900k, 32 GB RAM.

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MeldaProduction
KVRAF
11090 posts since 15 Mar, 2008 from Czech republic

Re: MSF vs Kaleidoscope

Post Thu May 16, 2019 4:43 am

One day who knows, but things are very slow with all the FRs from every side these days... Everyone thinks their ideas are the best :D
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Tagirijus
KVRian
646 posts since 28 Jun, 2006 from Germany

Re: MSF vs Kaleidoscope

Post Thu May 16, 2019 6:36 am

My ideas ARE the best. :borg:


Sorry, not serious ... had to be a bit silly. :clown:
System: Win 10 64 bit / i9 9900K (8x 3.6 GHz) / 16 GB DDR4-3200 RAM / 1TB M.2 SSD + 2x 500 GB SSD / RME Babyface / FL Studio

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Kalamata Kid
KVRAF
3649 posts since 27 Jul, 2001 from Tarpon Springs, Florida, USA

Re: MSF vs Kaleidoscope

Post Thu May 16, 2019 8:46 am

The physical modeled piano module request I believe is a worthy request because there are many musician that are craving that great piano sound. Vojtech I believe can make that extra good sounding piano. So for me any way to produce a great sounding piano module for MSF will do but the physical modeled piano will allow one to fine tune the sound.
23" 10-touch Monitor and iPad Air as Midi Controllers, iConnectMIDI2+, Windows Pro 10-64bit, i9-9900k, 32 GB RAM.

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Tagirijus
KVRian
646 posts since 28 Jun, 2006 from Germany

Re: MSF vs Kaleidoscope

Post Thu May 16, 2019 9:42 am

I know that Vojtech can do magic, no question. But I somehow doubt that Vojtech will come up with something better than Pianoteq, since they spent years in making realistic piano models only, while Vojtech spent years in making an outstanding framework to build his outstanding plugins on.
System: Win 10 64 bit / i9 9900K (8x 3.6 GHz) / 16 GB DDR4-3200 RAM / 1TB M.2 SSD + 2x 500 GB SSD / RME Babyface / FL Studio

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mevla
KVRAF
2213 posts since 3 Nov, 2015

Re: MSF vs Kaleidoscope

Post Sat May 18, 2019 5:05 am

Indeed, pianoteq is dedicated at it since many years and is accepted by well-known pianists over the world. It's also not an expensive plugin all things considered. Is it worthwhile to compete on this ground and involve algorithm research that could last for some time while obviously letting go of the current line of products, and similarly aligned future products ? I don't think it would be a reasonable business plan at all. And to hire one person to do research ? Likewise. One would need a team of university majors to get anything done of very high quality, that can compete on the market and make the investment worthwhile in a reasonable amount of time.

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MeldaProduction
KVRAF
11090 posts since 15 Mar, 2008 from Czech republic

Re: MSF vs Kaleidoscope

Post Sat May 18, 2019 5:51 am

I'm actually a piano lover myself, and since I never liked Pianoteq, I'd like to try, but time is against me indeed... Mixing revolution first ;)... And that's after MSF and its sampler :).

mevla: Have you ever tried to hire someone for something more complex that cleaning? :D Because I did, many times, and it's a nightmare. 99.999% people are incompetent from my experience... or maybe I have too high bars... in any case, research like this is, ehm, far above cleaning :D
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User avatar
Tagirijus
KVRian
646 posts since 28 Jun, 2006 from Germany

Re: MSF vs Kaleidoscope

Post Sun May 19, 2019 3:55 am

MeldaProduction wrote:
Sat May 18, 2019 5:51 am
I'm actually a piano lover myself, and since I never liked Pianoteq, I'd like to try
Whaaaat!? Hopefully you are talking about versions < 5 of Pianoteq. Since version 5 they made a huge jump and at the moment I am using version 6, which is even aa tiny bit better than 5. If you did not try, you definitely should try the actual version to adjust your judgement about Pianoteq, hehe. I LOVE this instrument!
System: Win 10 64 bit / i9 9900K (8x 3.6 GHz) / 16 GB DDR4-3200 RAM / 1TB M.2 SSD + 2x 500 GB SSD / RME Babyface / FL Studio

Tagirijus.de

mevla
KVRAF
2213 posts since 3 Nov, 2015

Re: MSF vs Kaleidoscope

Post Sun May 19, 2019 7:10 am

I played an upright piano for a few years. I like pianoteq. 5 and 6, for the playing I'm doing now. Hence it'd be hard to justify getting money out of the wallet to get any better sounds. While being very different, I'd like for the pianoteq people, to go into other types of modeling, like violin or oboe. That is, if it's possible to benefit from the piano modeling technology (even if only a bit) in other types of instruments. They are doing organ (almost mistyped that as 'rogan' - another popular emulation these days :) ) but then, I'm not too fond of that type of sounds. Maybe the venture into organ sounds opens the door for wind instruments modeling ?

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MeldaProduction
KVRAF
11090 posts since 15 Mar, 2008 from Czech republic

Re: MSF vs Kaleidoscope

Post Mon May 20, 2019 5:22 am

Tagirijus wrote:
Sun May 19, 2019 3:55 am
MeldaProduction wrote:
Sat May 18, 2019 5:51 am
I'm actually a piano lover myself, and since I never liked Pianoteq, I'd like to try
Whaaaat!? Hopefully you are talking about versions < 5 of Pianoteq. Since version 5 they made a huge jump and at the moment I am using version 6, which is even aa tiny bit better than 5. If you did not try, you definitely should try the actual version to adjust your judgement about Pianoteq, hehe. I LOVE this instrument!
I have no idea which versions I tried, it has been years. But I actually already tried like 3 times and every time I was like "whaaaaat? this is what the fuzz is about?... I don't get that..." :D But may be 4th time is a charm :D
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