MSF Feature Request: Setup Oscillator in "Ratio" Mode, i.e. define it's frequency by x:y ratio

[] Peter:H []

As the Subject says.

Context and Use Cases / Why:
I was analysing the "FM" preset which uses 2 Oscs combined by a merger in FM mode.
I've tried to change the freq of the modulator oscs to a ratio like 3:2, 5:2 or something similar.
But there's no option to do so. I know I could use the specific FM module, but it would be a valuable option in my eyes to be able to detune a Oscillator by ratio.
Another Use Case would for instance be "Max Bass" where you set up 3 Oscillators like 1:1, 3:2 , 2:1 to get the psycho accoutic effect where the ear perceives a fundamental of 1:2

Possible Solutions / How:
1. Add an option to the Oscillators to control the freq by x:y ratio rather than octave, semi and cent.
2. Add a "modifier" modul that can be placed in the signal path before a Oscillator an which allows to change the pitch by a x:y ratio.

Best Regards
] Peter:H [

[MeldaProduction]

Hi Peter,

I have never really heard how this could be used except for the FM. Adding yet another pitch change possibility means again (a bit) higher CPU cost etc., so I'm quite against to be honest.

[Kwurqx]

FM is indeed mostly about Ratios. Generally whole numbers. Like 1:1 or 4:5. You can simply use octave as if it were ratios. Then (de)tune/transpose (usually downward) until you get the right "note" when hitting the corresponding "key".

You can use division/multiplication to get to easier to program ratio's (2:2.5 = 4:5). The Yamaha DX (or Dexed) also offer non-integer ratio's. But this can mean some calculation to get to "musical" / "harmonic" ratio's is needed.

For the nerds: at equal temperament each next note (in the usual 12 note scale) has a 2^(1/12) times higher frequency then previous note (it's a logarithmic scale). So 7 semitones up equals a ratio of 1:(2^(1/12))^7 = 1:1.49830707688 (let's say 1:1.5). And 1:1.5 equals 2:3 (ratio wise...but transpose downward an octave for the same note).

Generally the lowest frequency/harmonic in the spectrum determines the "note", but this is not always the case (e.g. when suboscillators are involved).

[jmg8]

Another Use Case would for instance be "Max Bass" where you set up 3 Oscillators like 1:1, 3:2 , 2:1 to get the psycho accoutic effect where the ear perceives a fundamental of 1:2
] Peter:H [

Hey, I am really interested in this, would you mind explaining more, or point me in the direction of some info on this, please.
I think adding this to MBassador would be a very good idea. MBassador is great at improving the bass and adding sub, but what i cannot get it to do is give a perception of bass that is not really there. This is what Maxx bass does well.

I am not good at maths. But I tried your numbers (i think) with OSCs but could not get the psychoacoustic "fake bass" to sound. Did I do something wrong? Maybe I don't understand the ratios correctly.
I set up 3 OSCs, first with 0oct, second with +6 semitones and third with +12 semitones.
Then I should hear -12 semitones, right?

[] Peter:H []

Another Use Case would for instance be "Max Bass" where you set up 3 Oscillators like 1:1, 3:2 , 2:1 to get the psycho accoutic effect where the ear perceives a fundamental of 1:2
] Peter:H [

Hey, I am really interested in this, would you mind explaining more, or point me in the direction of some info on this, please.
I think adding this to MBassador would be a very good idea. MBassador is great at improving the bass and adding sub, but what i cannot get it to do is give a perception of bass that is not really there. This is what Maxx bass does well.

I am not good at maths. But I tried your numbers (i think) with OSCs but could not get the psychoacoustic "fake bass" to sound. Did I do something wrong? Maybe I don't understand the ratios correctly.
I set up 3 OSCs, first with 0oct, second with +6 semitones and third with +12 semitones.
Then I should hear -12 semitones, right?

The harmonics series goes from fundamental starting at 1 like: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5...now divide every frequency by 2 which will be the series of: 0.5, 1, 1.5, 2, 2.5, ... you leave away the 0.5 however your ears should perceive the 0.5 fundamental.
The Waves MaxBass somehow uses this trick to emphasize the bass frequency...but for that to work you should be able to use sines added to the signal by a x:y ratio
https://www.waves.com/1lib/pdf/plugins/maxxbass.pdf
Or please ready about the "phantom fundamental" here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missing_fundamental

[jmg8]

Am I right in saying 1.5 is the same as +6 semitones?

[Chandlerhimself]

If you want to do things by ratio a basic way would be to click harmonics inside the OSC. Turn them all down. The 1st will be 1 the 2nd will be 2, etc.

[jmg8]

Could anyone post here some settings for a synth please?

You see if I try in harmonic mode or try to stack multiple OSCs, i can not simulate the "missing fundamental" trick.

Are we actually sure of the harmonics that MaxxBass uses? As far as I can see they didn't publish this info and rather just say that it generates upper harmonics.

[] Peter:H []

Could anyone post here some settings for a synth please?

You see if I try in harmonic mode or try to stack multiple OSCs, i can not simulate the "missing fundamental" trick.

Are we actually sure of the harmonics that MaxxBass uses? As far as I can see they didn't publish this info and rather just say that it generates upper harmonics.

Please read https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missing_fundamental as well.
A pitch by +6 (rather +7 btw) semitones is not exactly the fundamental due to equal tempered tuning.
For instance start with C2 65.41Hz, compute frequencies by factor 1.5, 2.5, 3.5, 4.5 and tryto match them to note frequencies in equal tempered tuning.
For instance take factor 3.5. Results in Frequency 65,51 * 3.5 = 228,935 which is between
A3 220.00
A#3/Bb3 233.08
Seee the freq table here: https://auditoryneuroscience.com/pitch/ ... tern-music

Here's something I've tried in MSF:
A oscillator accompanied by a FM module with 3 operators set to 1.5, 2.5 and 3.5.
Both go thru a mixer which allows you to fade in the FM slowely and perceive the effect.
Please copy the following code and use the paste button in the toolbar of MSF

Code: Select all

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