Clip based approach

[elxsound]

With a clip based approach, the only thing that suffers (short term problem) is indeed transitions. There's plenty of articles about this over the years among various individuals that have complained about things like music submission to labels not having transitions, having lead-ins to different sections (except for the over used (in EDM) white noise risers and repeating/increasing in frequency of claps/kicks, etc...).

I like making long compositions that flow from one mood/form to another. Basically like a few different 'songs' and how to transition between them in what I consider an organic way is a very enjoyable creative challenge.

It's the same 'problem' with drum machines and patterns and sequencers... how to transition between these structures... no machine is as good at doing that as a human being. It is up to people to use the tools to fulfill their creative vision.

I would not want to use a DAW that was only clip based. If I had to pick one or the other, it would be the linear timeline. The clip based workflow is a flexible and useful laboratory and I'm happy to have it.

I couldn’t agree more.

[elxsound]

I guess my main point is that a linear DAW doesn't necessarily lead you down the path of linear composition as strongly as Ableton leads you down grid-like composition though this is obviously anecdotal.

What I object to in what you’ve been writing (and I think others have been too) is that you place too much emphasis on the DAW and not as much on the user.

No DAW “leads” you. These are all just various tools that should be used in a manner that helps you create what’s best without getting in the way of the result. This is what’s most important.

Many of us use multiple DAWs and are not limited to just one workflow, so speaking from this group I can say Ableton Live is not leading me when I use it, but I do use it the way I want to when I do use it.

[crimsonwarlock]

Ableton Live is not leading me when I use it, but I do use it the way I want to when I do use it.

But I'm sure you choose Ableton to do things that fall nicely into the realm of things it is meant to do, because that makes it easy to use it for what you do with it, right?

[elxsound]

Ableton Live is not leading me when I use it, but I do use it the way I want to when I do use it.

But I'm sure you choose Ableton to do things that fall nicely into the realm of things it is meant to do, because that makes it easy to use it for what you do with it, right?

Every DAW has its strength and weakness, but leading?

People, lead their dogs (or arguably, some dogs lead their people).

Arrows do not appear on the screen of Ableton Live, or Bitwig that direct the user to enter notes here. Stop on bar 8. Create alternate passage on next scene.

None of that happens.

What you get out of a DAW is exactly what you put into it because its an empty container when you start.

How people use it varies widely, so what one person says is not what all do and its certainly not the DAWs fault.

[pdxindy]

Ableton Live is not leading me when I use it, but I do use it the way I want to when I do use it.

But I'm sure you choose Ableton to do things that fall nicely into the realm of things it is meant to do, because that makes it easy to use it for what you do with it, right?

Using Bitwig as the example, just because Bitwig has the clip launcher, nobody is forced to use it. It is up to the user.

[dellboy]

"You are composing with your ears instead of using your eyes."

That literally made me laugh out loud. You have no idea, that's just totally non-sequitur.

That sounds like a good song title " non-sequitur".

And yes, I plead guilty.

[Passing Bye]

Personally use clip launching area mainly for composing, doing and trying different variations of the sections, different top lines, mix&match everything and coming up with best ideas for arrangement, than I just paste sections into arrangement or record it live.

One example, I start with chord progression with piano, jam and record some top lines, than I have my partner doing the same without hearing what I did, than we do more variations together, so we end up with tons of ideas and variations for the song, so next we could just save that project or have it opened and start another one next to it and use whatever we need from initial jamming one, drag &drop whatever we need, all these stuff are just click away, easy, fast and fun, for us Bitwig is essential tool for these sessions, even if we end up in another DAW for final arrangement.

[dellboy]

I'm not expecting you to shell out for Push 1/2 if you only have Lite, but Live's session view really starts making sense with such a controller. It's surprisingly intuitive and brings a lot of ...live into what can otherwise be a pretty "blocky", rigid experience when using just a keyboard & a mouse.

This took me around 0.5h to do from scratch - not touching the computer! - after taking Push2 out of the box for the 1st time:

Code: Select all

https://youtu.be/xPYV5EEcx4Q

You must have stayed up all night reading the instruction manual to pick that up so quickly.

Only three tracks as well.

[reggie1979]

It's not what I meant, I don't "get" it, it's not that I don't understand it. They are not the same thing. Let's please not turn this into one of these stupid get even things and instead just disagree

[elxsound]

@reggie1979, who are you writing to (or is it better to not ask)?

[reggie1979]

@reggie1979, who are you writing to (or is it better to not ask)?

Anyone that is going to quote me and start a thing. Please just let it go, we don't agree. I hate threads where something is taken and made into a big thing for no reason.

[elxsound]

Well, since we’re covering all bases... If I ever quote you, I take things lightly, so its never a big thing and I hope you can take it the same way.

[reggie1979]

Sorry if I'm upsetting anyone, just seen this kinda thing snowball. Maybe I should have worded it differently but I just felt that the idea of being accused of not liking using it (which I said get it as in I don't know why someone would prefer it) was kinda absurd.

I'll bow out before this gets out of hand.

[Passing Bye]

I responded to this thread and OP with my personal experience without reading what others said and don't care who ever get's it or not or whatever issues anyone have with my way of working or with clip launching in general or whatever nonsense is debated for 5 pages.

[elxsound]

I’m not seeing what you guys are seeing, but that is okay.

People are just talking (or writing) and sometimes it takes a few posts to see where someone is coming from, but I don’t think much debating has happened.