Native Instruments Massive X Synth - Sequel to Massive (Out Now!)

[sadowickproduction]

Lets just ignore the fact that other modern synth plugins can produce sine-waves similarly without aliasing but Massive X cannot somehow.

[LeVzi]

So you need an AVX compatible CPU to run Massive X , this is going to be the biggest BOMB of all time. What a joke.

Oh well at least Massive still works.

wow so this won't work with an AMD cpu?

Yeah I think it works with AMD Bulldozer chips and newer, not the phenom chips and older

[EvilDragon]

Lets just ignore the fact that other modern synth plugins can produce sine-waves similarly without aliasing but Massive X cannot somehow.

Aliasing is one thing, harmonic series mirroring is another. Mirroring was happening on PPG Wave as well, due to the usage of variable sample rate DACs. If MX oscillator playback is emulating those types of DACs, it would result in peaks like those. But those are not aliasing inharmonic peaks in MX, hence that's not aliasing.

It's actually beefing up the sound, rather than sounding sterile and digital like those other modern synths.

[hannesmenzel]

Can someone please point me to where I can access the macro controls in the VST version? Loaded in Komplete Kontrol it takes the default ones (CC 14 - 21 for me) but the plain VST seems to have no default assignments. No MIDI learn, I know, you figured that out. I actually don't want to DAW-assign that on every new instance.

In general: do you use Komplete Kontrol VST regularly for loading instruments?

[EvilDragon]

Macro controls are shown in the list of automatable parameters in your DAW.

[ghettosynth]

That's not aliasing in MX. Aliasing would have mirrored harmonics (and they would also be inharmonic against the fundamental) to the LEFT of the fundamental, MX doesn't have any of that.

The guy doesn't know shit.

About 18:50 in the video he shows some aliasing, it's not very clear though. It's a consequence of filter non-linearities and, in my tests, they appear to be about -120 dB. They are a function of the character filters, the SVF filter doesn't show the same pattern.

At the beginning of the video he's showing distortion of the sine wave. Which, if you really want a clean sine wave for some reason, assuming that you aren't changing the wt position, you just roll down the (osc) filter which tracks the fundamental. But in my tests, there are minor aliasing products with just the oscillator at -132 dB (with the filter wide open or closed). This is distinct from the distortion, which as he shows, is at -96 dB.

So, character filters that have non-linearities exhibit minor aliasing, who knew?

[EvilDragon]

Yes, that's the filters, but not raw oscillator. It's character of the filters. And having those peaks at -120 dB... that's "pretty bad"? No, that is pretty good, actually. MX doesn't sound sterile because of those small things.


And yes you can get a pure sine by rolling down the Filter knob in the Dual Wavetable.


I expect a correction video from Sadowick because it's obviously not informed very well.

[Tj Shredder]

But in my tests, there are minor aliasing products with just the oscillator at -132 dB (with the filter wide open or closed). This is distinct from the distortion, which as he shows, is at -96 dB.

Is this a theoretical claim? I mean do you hear -132 dB? already -96 dB is better than any CD. And the ongoing sound is masking it anyway. What kind of problem should that be?

[hannesmenzel]

Macro controls are shown in the list of automatable parameters in your DAW.

I'll take that as there are no default assignments, as the macros in Massive 1 were learn-able and pre-assigned to CC Mod;23-29 as far as I remember? Hence, I do habe to assign them via DAW Midi learn on every instance.

[EvilDragon]

Correct, there are no default assignments and there's no MIDI learn as of yet.

[ghettosynth]

Is this a theoretical claim? I mean do you hear -132 dB? already -96 dB is better than any CD. And the ongoing sound is masking it anyway. What kind of problem should that be?

You, well "I", can't hear any of it on the sin wave proper. With or without the osc filter it sounds the same to my aging ears. However, the claim is that it is an issue when one is using the oscillator to modulate something else, or, for example, when one is using the PM oscillators to modulate the WT oscillators.

[EvilDragon]

Pure sine wave from Massive X.

[sadowickproduction]

Yes, that's the filters, but not raw oscillator filters. It's character of the filters. And having those peaks at -120 dB... that's "pretty bad"? No, that is pretty good, actually. MX doesn't sound sterile because of those small things.


And yes you can get a pure sine by rolling down the Filter knob in the Dual Wavetable.


I expect a correction video by Sadowick because it's obviously not informed very well.

Dude, you're a moderator on the NI forums so what you say is very suspect. The oscillators alias with frequency sweeps close to nyquist and reflect consistent to a poorly optimized band-limiting filter. Its not "beefing up" the sound.

Serum and Phase Plant do not alias like this. Address that.

[hannesmenzel]

Correct, there are no default assignments and there's no MIDI learn as of yet.

That's why I liked to know if you guys and girls prefer to load instruments in Komplete Kontrol rather than native instruments (haha).

[EvilDragon]

Dude, you're a moderator on the NI forums so what you say is very suspect. The oscillators alias with frequency sweeps close to nyquist and reflect consistent to a poorly optimized band-limiting filter. Its not "beefing up" the sound.

Serum and Phase Plant do not alias like this. Address that.

Again, use the Filter knob if you want to have a pure sine. The image is shown above. There is no aliasing in frequency sweeps close to Nyquist then (if you could even call that aliasing rather than FFT noise when input changes too fast for the analyzer to react).

Serum and Phase Plant don't sound interesting (not to me at least) due to their overly clinical nature. If you want that, by all means, use them instead of MX.