Native Instruments Massive X Synth - Sequel to Massive (Out Now!)

[EvilDragon]

You can temporarily also just resave the patch you like in User section, too.

I'm sure the browser is going to be one of the first things to update, really.

A bit too early to ask perhaps, but when can we expect the first update?

I've no idea, and even if I did, I couldn't share that info.

[Forgotten]

This synth is just not complete. A "next-generation" synth that under-performs compared to its competition. I expected more. Ive learned and concluded that he standards are low here.

Do you even make some music (I seriously doubt that)? Or just moaning around full-time because you have nothing better to do?
How it is that I and many others are able to make music, leads, pads and... Kicks in MX and you're one poor soul that is unable to do because... Instead of making anything you just observe analyzers all day long?
Usually people use instruments to make music but guys like you use them to argue with internet hoping that everyone will tell you "oh dude, you're right my master"! This is what you want?
Stop whining and make some damn music instead.

His album was no.3 in Canada a week ago
https://twitter.com/sadowick/status/114 ... 48128?s=21

LOL
It could be no.1 on Billboard Top100 if he didn't waste his time trying to prove to internet MX faults

Well his videos are definitely no. 2's material...

*Edit: looks like his tweet about being "Number 3 in Canada!" is not entirely truthful...The 'CBC Radio 3' charts are for independent releases only as far as I can see - the official Canadian album charts are the Canadian Billboard charts.

[zerocrossing]

This synth is just not complete. A "next-generation" synth that under-performs compared to its competition. I expected more. Ive learned and concluded that he standards are low here.

Do you even make some music (I seriously doubt that)? Or just moaning around full-time because you have nothing better to do?
How it is that I and many others are able to make music, leads, pads and... Kicks in MX and you're one poor soul that is unable to do because... Instead of making anything you just observe analyzers all day long?
Usually people use instruments to make music but guys like you use them to argue with internet hoping that everyone will tell you "oh dude, you're right my master"! This is what you want?
Stop whining and make some damn music instead.

His album was no.3 in Canada a week ago
https://twitter.com/sadowick/status/114 ... 48128?s=21

LOL
It could be no.1 on Billboard Top100 if he didn't waste his time trying to prove to internet MX faults

Well his videos are definitely no. 2's material...

Comedy gold.

[JustinJ]

they can add another filter

I would certainly welcome this, even if that meant more cpu consumption.

On the A, B and C inserts there's a module called 'Util'. The Util module has slots for two filters which can be HP1, HP2, LP1, LP2 (high pass and low pass respectively with 6dB and 12dB slopes). And you can modulate them with an envelope or LFO etc. They don't have resonance though.

So, in addition to the main character filter, there's potential for up to six more filters in the chain.

It would have been nice if those filters could also be bandpass, notch etc and with more slopes but still. They're there.

[pixel85]

This synth is just not complete. A "next-generation" synth that under-performs compared to its competition. I expected more. Ive learned and concluded that he standards are low here.

Do you even make some music (I seriously doubt that)? Or just moaning around full-time because you have nothing better to do?
How it is that I and many others are able to make music, leads, pads and... Kicks in MX and you're one poor soul that is unable to do because... Instead of making anything you just observe analyzers all day long?
Usually people use instruments to make music but guys like you use them to argue with internet hoping that everyone will tell you "oh dude, you're right my master"! This is what you want?
Stop whining and make some damn music instead.

His album was no.3 in Canada a week ago
https://twitter.com/sadowick/status/114 ... 48128?s=21

LOL
It could be no.1 on Billboard Top100 if he didn't waste his time trying to prove to internet MX faults

Well his videos are definitely no. 2's material...

*Edit: looks like his tweet about being "Number 3 in Canada!" is not entirely truthful...The 'CBC Radio 3' charts are for independent releases only as far as I can see - the official Canadian album charts are the Canadian Billboard charts.

[zerocrossing]

I can temporarily live with just about all of the many shortcomings aside from not being able to tag favourites….I am writing them down on a post it...I remember doing that with hardware synths 20 years ago!

MX is not even close to finished, but there are some really good patches showing what it is capable of, I look forward to the updates.

Someone (I think it was Zerocrossing) brought up a good point a few pages back. That, most likely, decisions had to made as time ran out. The stuff that seems most unfinished is the stuff that can be updated without effecting the sound. You don't want a patch to sound different after an update. But they can fix the ui, browser, even add another filter while keeping total backwards compatibility. I thought that was a smart take.

I wouldn’t hold my breath for a second filter. The dual filter modes and oscillator modes with filters seem fine to me. As an instrument, you have to have a vision for what the final structure is. I think if they wanted dual filters it would already had them, but they chose to do different things. Not every synth is a Falcon. Go buy Falcon, Zebra, MSoundfactory, etc, if you want synths that don’t have the limits of a fixed architecture. I love working that way as well, but I also like an instrument that a fixed set of tools that has its own design.

[Mushy Mushy]

Wait, this thing only has one filter? So no serial filtering? I must be misunderstanding because the first Massive did.

[Stefken]

I can temporarily live with just about all of the many shortcomings aside from not being able to tag favourites….I am writing them down on a post it...I remember doing that with hardware synths 20 years ago!

MX is not even close to finished, but there are some really good patches showing what it is capable of, I look forward to the updates.

Someone (I think it was Zerocrossing) brought up a good point a few pages back. That, most likely, decisions had to made as time ran out. The stuff that seems most unfinished is the stuff that can be updated without effecting the sound. You don't want a patch to sound different after an update. But they can fix the ui, browser, even add another filter while keeping total backwards compatibility. I thought that was a smart take.

I wouldn’t hold my breath for a second filter. The dual filter modes and oscillator modes with filters seem fine to me. As an instrument, you have to have a vision for what the final structure is. I think if they wanted dual filters it would already had them, but they chose to do different things. Not every synth is a Falcon. Go buy Falcon, Zebra, MSoundfactory, etc, if you want synths that don’t have the limits of a fixed architecture. I love working that way as well, but I also like an instrument that a fixed set of tools that has its own design.

Pretty much every synth now has a dual filter. Icarus had it for ages...

[Stefken]

they can add another filter

I would certainly welcome this, even if that meant more cpu consumption.

On the A, B and C inserts there's a module called 'Util'. The Util module has slots for two filters which can be HP1, HP2, LP1, LP2 (high pass and low pass respectively with 6dB and 12dB slopes). And you can modulate them with an envelope or LFO etc. They don't have resonance though.

So, in addition to the main character filter, there's potential for up to six more filters in the chain.

It would have been nice if those filters could also be bandpass, notch etc and with more slopes but still. They're there.

Thx. I know. I meant a second instance of the 'character filter bank'.

[neodeavid]

This synth is just not complete. A "next-generation" synth that under-performs compared to its competition. I expected more. Ive learned and concluded that he standards are low here.

Do you even make some music (I seriously doubt that)? Or just moaning around full-time because you have nothing better to do?
How it is that I and many others are able to make music, leads, pads and... Kicks in MX and you're one poor soul that is unable to do because... Instead of making anything you just observe analyzers all day long?
Usually people use instruments to make music but guys like you use them to argue with internet hoping that everyone will tell you "oh dude, you're right my master"! This is what you want?
Stop whining and make some damn music instead.

His album was no.3 in Canada a week ago
https://twitter.com/sadowick/status/114 ... 48128?s=21

LOL
It could be no.1 on Billboard Top100 if he didn't waste his time trying to prove to internet MX faults

Well his videos are definitely no. 2's material...

*Edit: looks like his tweet about being "Number 3 in Canada!" is not entirely truthful...The 'CBC Radio 3' charts are for independent releases only as far as I can see - the official Canadian album charts are the Canadian Billboard charts.

Anyway, he spread the word for bad or good of you.

Now Massive X is being better known thanks to the bad and good that this first version has shown. The important thing is that the developers of NI, are updated in knowledge to solve the bad and continue to take advantage of the good they have done.

[zerocrossing]

c) Sadowick showing the aliasing thing is perfectly fine. Even no matter if he is right or wrong (or it cannot be decided) - Judging from the reactions, it seems like criticism in Massive hurts some religious feelings

It’s not that people are angry that the aliasing thing was brought up. Hell, had I gotten to it earlier, I’m sure I would have pointed it out. I wrote a post that outlined everything I felt was wrong with it. (Oddly, this post seems to be gone... maybe I forgot to resubmit after the review? God I hate that thing about this forum. )

I don’t think people are even mad that he think’s the issues are a deal breaker to him. Different people have issues that drive their buying decisions. I’ve rejected perfectly good sounding instruments because they don’t respond to aftertouch (though no longer as I have a DAW level work around). What gets people angry is that he seems to be on a crusade to vanquish Massive X and make sure it’s never purchased by a single person until his needs are met. The “religious” thing seems to be on his side, like he’s a LDS member who feels compelled to knock on your door during dinner to let you know that you’re beliefs are wrong. The synth isn’t for you? Good. Not everything is for everyone. State your opinion. Hell, go on the official forum and put up a thread with your requests. I have. But then just move on. No need to stick around to try and poop on everyone else’s parade just because you are disappointed. It’s not like we don’t have options. Go use those options. Hell, go start a thread about the synth you think is perfect and praise it. Hallelujah!

I think a lot of people, (and I’m guilty of doing this, though less so these days) feel like every instrument has to conform to a set of standards. It’s probably a good strategy to prevent rampant GAS, but often it causes people to get mired in minutia (I should do an album called Mired In Minutia ) and miss out on some things. Nothing wrong with that, but when you feel the need to bring people around to your view on things, you just get annoying at some point. It’s like you tried a shop’s mint chocolate chip ice cream and you’re annoyed that they use milk chocolate chips instead of dark chocolate (a bad choice IMO), and you let the shop owner know, but then you stand outside the shop and attempt to tell people who are eating the mint chocolate chip ice cream that the ice cream is inedible because of the chocolate choice. On top of that, some of the customers are pointing out things that are akin to saying, “well there’s a plain mint flavor and you can get dark chocolate chips as a topping,” and he’s ignoring them.

Chill. If enough people complain about a feature, and sales seem disappointing, they’ll step up and change it. I actually hope they do as well, though my entire opinion on the matter isn’t ruining my enjoyment of it.

[pdxindy]

I am having a real blast with this thing.
Some complaints;

-No value readout of knobs (so weird and not handy)
-Only 1 filter (i don't count the Utility)
-No panning per OSC
-No panning per Noice Gen
-No way to change the order of the FX (X, Y and Z)
-No MOD overview (can be handy)

Overal very happy with the sound, the possibilities and the workflow. The routing page and LFO's are truly fun

I am also really enjoying the sound as well... interesting tones just seem to flow like water!

No value readout is IMO a terrible decision. It makes it impossible to replicate something I like from one preset to another. I've already found a variety of situations where right-click drag for fine control with just a tiny change can significantly alter the sound. I consider it somewhat crippling for such a complex and nuanced synth.

Not having a way to change the FX order is a bother. It is compounded again by not having a value readout. So if I have 3 FX and want to switch the order I cannot get back to the exact same settings once I switch!

Soundwise MX could become one of my favorite synths! Which makes some of the (for me) deficiencies frustrating. MX has a very expressive sound engine. I can already tell I will be able to make beautifully playable lead sounds. But then it lacks support for breath controller or expression pedal which I frequently use. It lacks Poly AT. Then there is no midi learn.

It has never been a focus for NI to support players like myself who play with both hands and use controllers like breath or expression. They've never particularly shown an interest to support us. The lack of MPE is the next extension of this. I had hoped with MX being their first standalone new synth (standalone as in not a Reaktor ensemble) that it might mark a change in this regard. Oh well... it is what it is.

On a scale of 1-10 I would give the sound engine a 9.5... workflow I would put at 3 with no midi learn, poor midi support in general, no direct parameter automation, no undo/redo, no numeric display, only the most rudimentary browser, no module presets or module copy/paste, lacking some smart visual cues, no help system or right click options like locking a parameter.

[pdxindy]

^^
No way to bypass the fx!

cannot just turn an Osc off either

[neodeavid]

It's true, there are many religious comments about what Sadowick said

[pdxindy]

Not sure how right click on a module is "clumsy" (and it IS a real bypass). It's a click like any other.

Because it's located in another part of the synthesizer that serves a different function - routing things.

It's like if you want to switch off the lights in the room, you have to go to the other room, open the cupboard that contains the electical panel for the whole house, and unwind the fuse that supplies electricity to the room you were in.

It is also 3 right clicks on 3 modules to bypass FX instead of a single obvious button... (on a synth that besides the routing tab has no right click options so one doesn't even think to try it)