Massive X - the thread

[highkoo]

quit the yapping, because nobody honestly cares. Our other hero isn't quite capable apparently of doing much except non-concrete rambling. Which incidentally I guess also makes him not the hero of the working class!

Wow.

IBTL!
Is there going to be a 'more reasonable' thread..?

[realtrance]

People always have different opinions about UI. Heck, I’ve worked with professional UI design studios and the results aren’t always any better aesthetically than one guy with great vision.

Only the results count. But an UI design studio will at least have a decent output standard.
But off course someone can be very good at it without being associated with a studio.

What professional UI design can do is provide a better sense of flow after sustained and scientific observation (there are facilities for this, actually, with equipment that tracks movement, speed, reactions and records all of this as significant data for analysis, alongside human interaction analysis of course). But that only improves, to some extent, usage experience.

A usability lab can improve things, but really a lot you can know beforehand as it's pretty well documented by now.

The aesthetics and familiarization aspects are, I’m convinced, absolutely arbitrary. Simply, the more innovative the UI, the stronger the initial reaction, until users adjust.

That's untrue. The best UI is a UI that feels like 'it's not there'. That is, everything feels completely natural and logical. If people need to adjust, that's not a good sign. Familiarity and designing towards learned expectations and affordances is important.
Aesthetics are pretty arbitrary but an UI that looks good, will always be more pleasant to work with.
And thus add to the experience.

I agree with you up to "what looks good," since yes, as ED says down thread, that's the subjective aspect.

The whole issue of conforming to learned expectations and affordances, though, is not as cut and dried as your comment suggests. As Steve Jobs with Jony Ive and others have demonstrated, sometimes you have to break existing expectations for an entirely different model, if you think those expectations are the result of inefficient learned habits.

If you do so, though, you have to be very systematic, so that learning a different approach remains coherent throughout. That's the tough part of innovation.

[chk071]

Of course It's up to the developer to include it.
From this video/description audio-in is available for all VST3 instruments supporting side-chaining which I guess it should easy up the implementation process in case if developer would liek to do it.

Wonder if that's available in other hosts which support VST3.

[Stefken]

Our other hero isn't quite capable apparently of doing much except non-concrete rambling.

You haven't been paying attention again. Tssss

[Stefken]

I agree with you up to "what looks good," since yes, as ED says down thread, that's the subjective aspect.

Yes, it's very subjective. You can't make a design that pleases everybody. But you can make multiple skins for example, if time permits. But there is some kind of a standard where you can say: this is good and this is complete trash. Just like music I guess. It's all subjective but if it's completely out of tune, you can say: this is not good.

The whole issue of conforming to learned expectations and affordances, though, is not as cut and dried as your comment suggests. As Steve Jobs with Jony Ive and others have demonstrated, sometimes you have to break existing expectations for an entirely different model, if you think those expectations are the result of inefficient learned habits.

Affordances are pretty much like instinct so that is not easily done.
But yes, if you have a genious design, you can improve on designs and learned expectations, and people will adjust very fast as it is actually better. But these are innovations that only come around so often.

[pixel85]

Of course It's up to the developer to include it.
From this video/description audio-in is available for all VST3 instruments supporting side-chaining which I guess it should easy up the implementation process in case if developer would liek to do it.

Wonder if that's available in other hosts which support VST3.

Dunno. Retrologue in Cubase is the only synth that I'm aware of that have this functionality. And this video is almost 3 years old

[Vortifex]

Has anyone ever seen Functional and realtrance in the same room together

[pixel85]

Just like music I guess. But if it's completely out of tune, you can say: this is not good.

Or you call it polychromatic music and you're sorted, it's good again

[realtrance]

Has anyone ever seen Functional and realtrance in the same room together

I think we have a Giant Grump that we trade across the multiverse between us. Today it is Functional's.

[pdxindy]

I’m sure NI has the resources to work with all this, so I’m not as aggressive as some have been in claiming the UI is “bad.”

Mostly coming from a person who hasn't probably said a single good thing about MX. Aside from that performer view being hidden behind the performers, there's probably nothing bad to say about the UI. There's some quirks here and there that truly are not intuitive, but not so much related to UI.

I suppose it somewhat depends on what you consider part of the UI... I consider no numeric input to be a bad thing about the UI. Same with no undo/redo.

I consider it poor UI design that one has to go to the routing tab to turn off a module instead of just being able to click on the module icon as the primary method (which looks like it was there earlier in development from that older UI image)

There is no way to reorder the FX or use the arrow keys to step through presets... though the browser just gets an incomplete cause basically there isn't one.

The output meters on the top left have an arrow underneath. At first I thought that arrow did nothing cause I tried a couple times to drag it side to side... then I discovered you drag it up and down to adjust it. There are a number of little unintuitive things like that. The arrows underneath the envelope graphic look like editable controls for what I would assume to be loop point adjustment. Doesn't seem like they do anything.

It's a subjective thing, but so far the knob acceleration is a bad UI choice imo.

[chk071]

Of course It's up to the developer to include it.
From this video/description audio-in is available for all VST3 instruments supporting side-chaining which I guess it should easy up the implementation process in case if developer would liek to do it.

Wonder if that's available in other hosts which support VST3.

Dunno. Retrologue in Cubase is the only synth that I'm aware of that have this functionality. And this video is almost 3 years old

I'll check in Studio One. Still have Retrologue 2 installed (nice thing BTW... with the Cubase license, i also own a Retrologue 2 license, which means i don't even need Cubase installed, and still can use it, same with Padshop).

[Functional]

Our other hero isn't quite capable apparently of doing much except non-concrete rambling.

You haven't been paying attention again. Tssss

In so far, the only concrete thing you have mentioned is the performer. Sorry, but in terms of quantity, we are quite far away from achieving the brutalist level of concrete. What else is there exactly that is so wildly important that the person who designed this should lose their job? No really, I want to hear.

[EvilDragon]

It's all subjective but if it's completely out of tune, you can say: this is not good.

Polytonality and microtuning. Everything has a purpose, you don't have to like it, but you cannot say it's not "good" with such a broad stroke. There's people out there enjoying that sorta stuff. De gustibus...

[Forgotten]

Has anyone ever seen Functional and realtrance in the same room together

I think we have a Giant Grump that we trade across the multiverse between us. Today it is Functional's.

[realtrance]

I nominate today as No Ad Hominem Attacks Day.




Brutalism is an interesting architectural style, despite the shocking-sounding name.