The "NEW" Plugin Alliance?

VST, AU, etc. plug-in Virtual Effects discussion
User avatar
mgw38
KVRAF
1908 posts since 26 Jul, 2015 from Philadelphia

Post Tue Jul 16, 2019 5:06 am

cptgone wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 1:34 am
Scotty wrote:
Mon Jul 15, 2019 2:28 pm
I think one approach to managing the subscription anxiety regarding opening older project files would be if the companies that sold subscriptions had an affordable 48 hour pass for the specific purpose of revisiting old projects after your subscription had lapsed.
While that would be nice, it doesn't safeguard against devs going out of business. I'd rather own the software I bought.
They have a proprietary licensing system that relies on an authorization server. If the developer goes out of business, owning the software will not really help you much in the long run.

It is nice that the Cakewalk licensing server is still operational but it could stop working at any time without notice. The fact that I "own" Z3ta+ 2 would not change the fact that I could no longer install it then.

Funkybot's Evil Twin
KVRAF
6566 posts since 16 Aug, 2006

Re: The "NEW" Plugin Alliance?

Post Tue Jul 16, 2019 5:37 am

kmonkey wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 5:04 am
Thanks but i tried these. No really i did. It's not just pan shift or phase rotation. Or m/s delay to add spatial effect.

Actually i never tried Matthew Lane's Stereodelta thanks for pointing it out.
Yeah, TMT is not a stereoizer by any means. Take my approach of using a stereo EQ and adding slightly different EQ/gain settings to each channel. When you pop these into Plugin Doctor, you can see that's exactly what's happening with TMT (even if under the hood they're accomplishing it via other means). Each stereo instance of a TMT plugin will have slightly different gain levels and EQ center points between the two channels. And on mono channels, EQ'ing 400hz by -3db on one TMT channel, might result in a change at 380hz by -3.3db on another. Like a slight randomization effect is being applied each time you click on a new channel. This is totally normal in hardware where the tolerances will cause slight difference and pan pots to move around. That's all TMT is.

perpetual3
KVRian
952 posts since 28 Sep, 2012

Re: The "NEW" Plugin Alliance?

Post Tue Jul 16, 2019 5:40 am

Funkybot's Evil Twin wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 5:37 am
kmonkey wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 5:04 am
Thanks but i tried these. No really i did. It's not just pan shift or phase rotation. Or m/s delay to add spatial effect.

Actually i never tried Matthew Lane's Stereodelta thanks for pointing it out.
Yeah, TMT is not a stereoizer by any means. Take my approach of using a stereo EQ and adding slightly different EQ/gain settings to each channel. When you pop these into Plugin Doctor, you can see that's exactly what's happening with TMT (even if under the hood they're accomplishing it via other means). Each stereo instance of a TMT plugin will have slightly different gain levels and EQ center points between the two channels. And on mono channels, EQ'ing 400hz by -3db on one TMT channel, might result in a change at 380hz by -3.3db on another. Like a slight randomization effect is being applied each time you click on a new channel. This is totally normal in hardware where the tolerances will cause slight difference and pan pots to move around. That's all TMT is.
Absolutely GOLD advice! This should be branched out to its own thread and pinned in the sound design / production thread.

PieBerger
KVRist
396 posts since 23 May, 2012 from London

Re: The "NEW" Plugin Alliance?

Post Tue Jul 16, 2019 5:47 am

perpetual3 wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 4:54 am
I like UA, but PA are so transparently full of it it’s kind of insulting.
So much this. I've just come to accept PA for what it is and not get too hung about it anymore. I never buy stuff full price and try to use my monthly voucher when I can so that I'm usually not paying more than $29+vat for anything. I really like UA as a dev, they make great plugins and I would happily pay more to support them but not while they're under rule of PA's completely bonkers commercial department.
Always Read the Manual!

User avatar
loungepanda
KVRist
371 posts since 27 Apr, 2013 from Denmark

Re: The "NEW" Plugin Alliance?

Post Tue Jul 16, 2019 7:35 am

They just released a more in-depth video about the new MEGA-Bundle

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wnbTem-8q8U

User avatar
soulone82
KVRian
927 posts since 16 Aug, 2010 from almost everywhere...

Re: The "NEW" Plugin Alliance?

Post Tue Jul 16, 2019 7:50 am

LMAO

Bouroki
KVRist
320 posts since 16 Jun, 2013 from Morocco

Re: The "NEW" Plugin Alliance?

Post Tue Jul 16, 2019 7:53 am

Funkybot's Evil Twin wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 5:37 am
kmonkey wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 5:04 am
Thanks but i tried these. No really i did. It's not just pan shift or phase rotation. Or m/s delay to add spatial effect.

Actually i never tried Matthew Lane's Stereodelta thanks for pointing it out.
Yeah, TMT is not a stereoizer by any means. Take my approach of using a stereo EQ and adding slightly different EQ/gain settings to each channel. When you pop these into Plugin Doctor, you can see that's exactly what's happening with TMT (even if under the hood they're accomplishing it via other means). Each stereo instance of a TMT plugin will have slightly different gain levels and EQ center points between the two channels. And on mono channels, EQ'ing 400hz by -3db on one TMT channel, might result in a change at 380hz by -3.3db on another. Like a slight randomization effect is being applied each time you click on a new channel. This is totally normal in hardware where the tolerances will cause slight difference and pan pots to move around. That's all TMT is.
All this does is create a side signal because of the phase differences - exactly what stereo/spatial processors do, only with more control and less gambling.

Funkybot's Evil Twin
KVRAF
6566 posts since 16 Aug, 2006

Re: The "NEW" Plugin Alliance?

Post Tue Jul 16, 2019 7:57 am

Bouroki wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 7:53 am
Funkybot's Evil Twin wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 5:37 am
kmonkey wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 5:04 am
Thanks but i tried these. No really i did. It's not just pan shift or phase rotation. Or m/s delay to add spatial effect.

Actually i never tried Matthew Lane's Stereodelta thanks for pointing it out.
Yeah, TMT is not a stereoizer by any means. Take my approach of using a stereo EQ and adding slightly different EQ/gain settings to each channel. When you pop these into Plugin Doctor, you can see that's exactly what's happening with TMT (even if under the hood they're accomplishing it via other means). Each stereo instance of a TMT plugin will have slightly different gain levels and EQ center points between the two channels. And on mono channels, EQ'ing 400hz by -3db on one TMT channel, might result in a change at 380hz by -3.3db on another. Like a slight randomization effect is being applied each time you click on a new channel. This is totally normal in hardware where the tolerances will cause slight difference and pan pots to move around. That's all TMT is.
All this does is create a side signal because of the phase differences - exactly what stereo/spatial processors do, only with more control and less gambling.
Indeed. And that's different from what TMT does how?

perpetual3
KVRian
952 posts since 28 Sep, 2012

Re: The "NEW" Plugin Alliance?

Post Tue Jul 16, 2019 8:02 am

Funkybot's Evil Twin wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 7:57 am
Bouroki wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 7:53 am
Funkybot's Evil Twin wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 5:37 am
kmonkey wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 5:04 am
Thanks but i tried these. No really i did. It's not just pan shift or phase rotation. Or m/s delay to add spatial effect.

Actually i never tried Matthew Lane's Stereodelta thanks for pointing it out.
Yeah, TMT is not a stereoizer by any means. Take my approach of using a stereo EQ and adding slightly different EQ/gain settings to each channel. When you pop these into Plugin Doctor, you can see that's exactly what's happening with TMT (even if under the hood they're accomplishing it via other means). Each stereo instance of a TMT plugin will have slightly different gain levels and EQ center points between the two channels. And on mono channels, EQ'ing 400hz by -3db on one TMT channel, might result in a change at 380hz by -3.3db on another. Like a slight randomization effect is being applied each time you click on a new channel. This is totally normal in hardware where the tolerances will cause slight difference and pan pots to move around. That's all TMT is.
All this does is create a side signal because of the phase differences - exactly what stereo/spatial processors do, only with more control and less gambling.
Indeed. And that's different from what TMT does how?
Because the convo is:

TMT is not like spatial processors.

TMT is this stereo EQ technique

The stereo technique is exactly like spatial processors.

So I agree that it’s confusing.

User avatar
cptgone
KVRAF
5089 posts since 1 Aug, 2003

Re: The "NEW" Plugin Alliance?

Post Tue Jul 16, 2019 9:10 am

mgw38 wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 5:06 am
They have a proprietary licensing system that relies on an authorization server. If the developer goes out of business, owning the software will not really help you much in the long run.
In such cases, that's true.
I prefer software to be as 'clean' as possible. Dollar for exe - for keeps ;)

User avatar
plexuss
KVRAF
3222 posts since 8 Jul, 2009

Re: The "NEW" Plugin Alliance?

Post Tue Jul 16, 2019 9:12 am

loungepanda wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 7:35 am
They just released a more in-depth video about the new MEGA-Bundle

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wnbTem-8q8U
Upon watching this commericial it struck me that most of the Plug Annoyance stuff happened after Di*k move to 'Merika. Gods help us all.... :dog: :party:

reggie1979
KVRian
1012 posts since 26 Nov, 2018

Re: The "NEW" Plugin Alliance?

Post Tue Jul 16, 2019 9:15 am

loungepanda wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 7:35 am
They just released a more in-depth video about the new MEGA-Bundle

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wnbTem-8q8U
:hihi:

perpetual3
KVRian
952 posts since 28 Sep, 2012

Re: The "NEW" Plugin Alliance?

Post Tue Jul 16, 2019 9:34 am

plexuss wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 9:12 am
loungepanda wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 7:35 am
They just released a more in-depth video about the new MEGA-Bundle

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wnbTem-8q8U
Upon watching this commericial it struck me that most of the Plug Annoyance stuff happened after Di*k move to 'Merika. Gods help us all.... :dog: :party:
Yeah, I know. All of his “flash sale,” “coupon,” pre-announcement tactics are consumer manipulation 101 for subscription / membership business. They’re are designed to create a feeling of missing out, and “getting a good deal.”

This strategy is based on new customers, not existing ones. There will always be an influx of new hobbyists and engineers who will just buy into the sub. Everyone else is played for a fool, but hey he gets to race super cars and I’m hesitant to upgrade Ableton and buy a Push.

Personally, I’ve bought two PA plugs because they have unique features that I could find elsewhere and I didn’t pay too much for one of them (the other went on a flash sale a short while later and I swore off PA).
Last edited by perpetual3 on Tue Jul 16, 2019 9:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
el-bo (formerly ebow)
KVRAF
13078 posts since 24 May, 2009 from A galaxy, far far away

Re: The "NEW" Plugin Alliance?

Post Tue Jul 16, 2019 9:42 am

loungepanda wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 7:35 am
They just released a more in-depth video about the new MEGA-Bundle

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wnbTem-8q8U
Whoah! When did Smashie and Nicey stop DJ'ing? And what's with the 'merican accents?

Funkybot's Evil Twin
KVRAF
6566 posts since 16 Aug, 2006

Re: The "NEW" Plugin Alliance?

Post Tue Jul 16, 2019 9:58 am

perpetual3 wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 8:02 am
Funkybot's Evil Twin wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 7:57 am
Bouroki wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 7:53 am
Funkybot's Evil Twin wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 5:37 am
kmonkey wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 5:04 am
Thanks but i tried these. No really i did. It's not just pan shift or phase rotation. Or m/s delay to add spatial effect.

Actually i never tried Matthew Lane's Stereodelta thanks for pointing it out.
Yeah, TMT is not a stereoizer by any means. Take my approach of using a stereo EQ and adding slightly different EQ/gain settings to each channel. When you pop these into Plugin Doctor, you can see that's exactly what's happening with TMT (even if under the hood they're accomplishing it via other means). Each stereo instance of a TMT plugin will have slightly different gain levels and EQ center points between the two channels. And on mono channels, EQ'ing 400hz by -3db on one TMT channel, might result in a change at 380hz by -3.3db on another. Like a slight randomization effect is being applied each time you click on a new channel. This is totally normal in hardware where the tolerances will cause slight difference and pan pots to move around. That's all TMT is.
All this does is create a side signal because of the phase differences - exactly what stereo/spatial processors do, only with more control and less gambling.
Indeed. And that's different from what TMT does how?
Because the convo is:

TMT is not like spatial processors.

TMT is this stereo EQ technique

The stereo technique is exactly like spatial processors.

So I agree that it’s confusing.
Does TMT make things wide? Yes. Do stereo processors? Yes. Does TMT alter the frequency between channels? Yes. Particularly when it comes to the center frequencies of EQs and the amount of gain applied! Do stereo processors? No, not really. A stereo processor is not really designed to result in EQ changes even if phase cancellation will have to result in some (at least when collapsed to mono). Does EQ'ing one side of a signal differently than the other side mess with phase? Yes. Is that the same as a stereo processor? Well, sort of (it messes with phase and can will result in a wider sound like a stereo processor), but not really.

So that's my distinction. TMT isn't slapping a stereo widening effect on things under the hood, but it is resulting in different gain between channels, different EQ center points between channels, maybe even different THD, and all that does result in stereo widening. They're related tasks, and similar end results, but if you want to simulate TMT, I think my approach much better approximates what's happening in the Bx plugins compared to just using a stereo widener.
Last edited by Funkybot's Evil Twin on Tue Jul 16, 2019 10:01 am, edited 1 time in total.

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