Recording- draw waveform?

[sl23]

Aren't R-click menus the quickest way? Or shortcuts. I've never been a fan of using the keyboard, but, have to admit it's better than having loads of icons on a toolbar!

[dakkra]

Alright, so I made a video on this matter to make it a bit easier to explain and understand. Yes I understand I can build my own MUX modules that overcome some of the issues, but that bleeds into time/workflow.

EDIT: should probably link the video


Time stamps and topics:
0:00 Introduction
Visuals
(2:46) MOdules have visuals for what they do
- Analyzers and reactive graphics
(11:30) VU meters for everything
- Can see what signal I want
(12:50) Visual modulation
- Easy to understand what modulation is doing per-parameter
(15:30) Visual /real-time display of edited audio
- No guess-and-check
(18:42) Square MIDI indicator
- I can tell where midi is going and where it's getting modified

Environment/Workflow
(23:00) Browser with search popup
- Dramatically improves time to build chains
(25:40) MUX is slower than bitwig at fx chains
- Grouping and default "drop in slots" would help a ton
(29:05) Sidechain is picked up, not sent
- I think Bitwig is the only DAW that does this. It's super nice
(31:30) Pre-made contextual hotkeys/shortcuts for common activities and missing functions
- It's just tedious to do it all manually. Plus the shortcut display next to menu items helps a lot
(39:35) Audio and Midi clip resize and loop inline
- More arranger benefits
(41:00) Auto Grid Resize
- Less hassle while working with long and short notes

Like I said at the start and end of the video, this is not to hate on Mulab. I've been using Mulab for seven years now and I still love it! It has some great technical advantages over other DAWs (timestretch, audio DSP, an amazing sampler, linked clips, automation clips, curves for MSEG's and automation, etc...) and I really think that it's more competent than other solutions. The driving reason for my switch to Bitwig was APDC, which is due to me using some heavy duty plugins (linear phase EQs, look-ahead dynamics, spectral effects, etc..). Bitwig is the only other DAW that can approach Mulab's modular workflow so that's why I went with it (I gave up ARA, which is pretty big for us Melodyne users).

This is just to answer why visuals matter and why UI/UX can be useful to workflow. I hope this helps, I know it's a long video but I tried to cover a lot without wasting too much time.

Cheers,
Dakkra

[bbreakz]

@dakkra are you still going to be doing Mulab videos? Cause that's all I need to know Haven't watched the vid yet but I have Bitwig as well and spent last year + using it. It's quite impressive with BW3.. but for me Ive learned I like linked clips too much these days probably cause I started off with FL. So much faster for me.. using M8 has been nice and relaxing + fun. I hope u will continue to do videos tho they are helpful

[MuTools]

Thanks dakkra. Very interesting feedback. Much appreciated!
I'll reflect on this.

[dakkra]

@dakkra are you still going to be doing Mulab videos? Cause that's all I need to know Haven't watched the vid yet but I have Bitwig as well and spent last year + using it. It's quite impressive with BW3.. but for me Ive learned I like linked clips too much these days probably cause I started off with FL. So much faster for me.. using M8 has been nice and relaxing + fun. I hope u will continue to do videos tho they are helpful

Oh you betcha I will! I've been using Mulab since M4 (7 years ago!) so I've got a lot to talk about

[bbreakz]

Oh you betcha I will! I've been using Mulab since M4 (7 years ago!) so I've got a lot to talk about

Ok great!!

[pinki]

One philosophical note: I think that too much eye candy can distract the ears from the sound.
So i'm still convinced that a DAW should be simple & sober UI wise. I know this is not a commercial attitude, bling bling you know. And i also know some functions in MuLab could use some extra visual feedback, always feel free to make suggestions. But don't you agree that too much fancy graphics can distract the ears & creative soul from the sound & music creation? (question not only to dakkra, but to all users)

Yes and yes. That is why I’m here. Bitwig did exactly that to me. My eyes and my ears started to melt. Mulab’s interface is art in this respect.

[pinki]

Dakkra I watched your video. So here is the interesting thing. As the OP of the thread I posted about a really important visual feedback function missing in Mulab- knowing you are recording. You said I didn’t like the response I got but that is not true.
You see my visual feedback is not a “that would be nice” feedback. It is a deal breaker. In your video to be honest I don’t need all the visual feedback you are calling for. However if I make a 20 minute jam and find out it didn’t record that is not a nicety that’s a deal breaker.
So it’s not a matter of function over gui or some such, or “use your ears” as said elsewhere...it’s a matter of not making sense as a compromise or design decision.
Bitwig had too much visual feedback imho and Mulab wins on its less is more philosophy. But no recording feedback?

[MuTools]

Pinki would it be helpful if the recorder panel (where you can set the inputs etc) would also display some basic info about the actual recording? For example when it's not actually recording it says "Not recording" and when it's actually recording it says "Recording mm:ss" where mm:ss is the increasing recording time. Possibly also adding the max level of the actual recording. It's very basic but at least it gives relevant state info so you know you're actually recording. What do you think?

[sl23]

What about a simple indicator that would tell you recording is actually in progress? Not just that you have armed recording or monitoring input, but that a track is recording data. The track panel on the left could have a red "LED" to indicate that this track is recording data to it.

Is that easier to implement?
Would that be sufficient for your needs pinki?

[dakkra]

@pinki When I said you didn't like the responses, I meant in terms of work around. I'm not saying Mulab doesn't need live waveform views, I just meant that you weren't satisfied with the work around, much like how I'm not entirely satisfied with inserting a spectrum analyzer at every turn.

My point here is not to take sides. Mulab is a fine tool, I've been using it for years. The first set of responses to this thread were on how to work around the issue provided, much like how Mutools provided me a work around on signal feedback. It's already obvious that each user has their own taste, you, and many here in the Mu-community are not a fan of the flashy/active UI of Bitwig. Even I don't enjoy many aspects of Bitwig's UI. On the other hand, you and I both have stated that there are benefits to more visual feedback.

Once again, this is a balance issue. There's no such thing as the perfect DAW. Some people want more visuals, some want less, and there's no perfect balance, only "best fit". For me, I like visual feedback, but I also like clean UI's. I understand both worlds. That's the reason why I've not entirely gone over to Bitwig, Mulab is a very clean software that doesn't waste many resources on flashy pretty graphics. Instead, it has a very deep feature set. As I've stated in this thread, the driving reason for me to use Bitwig is APDC, which is essential for some of my plugins (Melda, Tonebooster, Eventide, etc...). When I don't use latency inducing plugins though, Mulab is still great fun to work in!

I've been using Mulab since V4. I've seen it go from a white/green with interface with little color to it, to an extremely customizable interface that let's you pick colors down to fonts, window borders, and the freaking gl_clear() buffer it seems (assuming Mulab renders with openGL). The jump from V4 to V5 was amazing. Then we got some vector UI enhancements, a slow but steady trail away from bitmaps (though it still has a few), and incredible new synthesis options in V6. V7 got rid of the "lcd" look for the transport, fine-tuned some more UI stuff, and gave us audio rate modulation. V8 gave us time stretch and improved work with samples.

Mulab, like every other DAW, is a history of balances improvements in both UI/UX and in features. I'm not trying to say it's not a good software. I believe and have been a voice in saying it's a fantastic software for both newcomers and sound designer alike.

The points that are being made here are that Mulab could use a touch up. Clearly there are desired visual features that you, I, and possibly others would like to see. I'm not saying Mulab is perfect, nor am I saying Bitwig is perfect. Seriously, have you heard Bitwig's time stretch? ICK! (Anxiously awaiting MUX 8 for this ).

This thread has gone from question, to philosophy, to what is essentially now a FR and debate on what is essential in a DAW. It's all a balance. Some people like visuals, some don't. You calling live waveform preview essential simply isn't true for many users here. DP doesn't have a modular synth and effect area, and thus is clearly an inadequate DAW, right? No! It just means that's not what it's focus is. Not all digital musicians record long sessions. When I started with Mulab I never made a recording. I was sequencing on a laptop learning about synthesis. This is why I said that if recording isn't your priority, take a deeper look. Otherwise, there are other solutions. Even my gripes about Mulab aren't enough to keep me away form using it.

Mutools has heard us both out. We've had our say, and the developer will weight in our thoughts. That's all that can be asked for when it comes to software. In fact, it's easier to talk to the developer of Mutools than to the developers at Bitwig (they don't really watch their KVR forum all that closely). Something to keep in mind, Mutools has in the past stated that time-stretch wasn't really going to be a priority. But, since enough of the users had an interest in it, Mutools decided to invest an entire major version of development in it. That is what you pay for here, a developer and software that listens to you, and that is far better than what you get in other corners.

[sl23]

My apologies dakkra, I was just trying to find an alternative less glorified yet informative solution.

[dakkra]

My apologies dakkra, I was just trying to find an alternative less glorified yet informative solution.

No that's fine. Workaround's/ideas are always welcome It's just this thread has become a debate on what's "essential" to a DAW's workflow. Mulab seems to fit pinki's needs except for waveform display while recording. That falls under the category of a visual aid, as do many other features from other software. Can one record without visual waveforms? Yes. Is it nice to have? Also yes. Mulab is still a good software without the visual aid. That's what I'm trying to defend.

Then again, I should take my own advice from my earlier post and let it go. I'm not going to convince pinki that it's not essential, and that's that. Nothing wrong with pinki, (s)he sees that as an essential feature to their workflow just as I see modularity is essential to mine.

I think I've said enough here. Pinki, I meant nothing against you. I was simply jumping to the defense of a software I've used for quite some time, thus I have a strong affinity and bias towards it.

I think I'll check out of this thread for a little while as I think I'm causing more drama than I'm solving. Thank you all for hearing me out, and my apologies for the mess.

[bbreakz]

I like this Dakkra guy

[MuTools]

Dakkra, you did not cause a mess, at the contrary i think, your feedback is very useful. And all said gently. I will continue to reflect on things you said. Thanks.

About the visual feedback on recording: I agree that there should be more visual feedback so the user is sure recording goes fine. I'm evaluating/researching some ideas.

By the way, i already want to share that in the next version of MuLab & MUX it will be possible to make shortcuts directly from the context menus. No need to go via Edit Shortcuts anymore. More info soon.