What do you think of the DAW market right now and for 2020?

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BONES
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8540 posts since 14 Jun, 2001 from Somewhere else, on principle

Post Tue Aug 13, 2019 4:33 pm

And hopefully they'll start supporting VST3 with it, too.
NOVAkILL 4.0 : Dell G7 17 (Core i7, 8GB RAM, Win10), Behringer QX1002USB, Cubase, DUNE, Hive, Thorn, TRK-01, Equator, Substance, Arcsyn, Synthmaster One, Trueno, Analog Keys, MicroMonsta, Uno, Skulpt, Craft Synth 2.0

machinesworking
KVRAF
1669 posts since 15 Aug, 2003 from seattle

Re: What do you think of the DAW market right now and for 2020?

Post Tue Aug 13, 2019 7:41 pm

zerocrossing wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 9:39 pm
I really think that if we do see a new DAW, it’s from Native Instruments. It would be a smart move, if they roll it out as part of a new hardware interface... are you listening NI?

“Rekord.”

:lol:
Then they can truly abandon all new features in Maschine.

machinesworking
KVRAF
1669 posts since 15 Aug, 2003 from seattle

Re: What do you think of the DAW market right now and for 2020?

Post Tue Aug 13, 2019 7:54 pm

I see no legit reason for any company to come out with a new DAW.
But,
I still think there's a lack of 100% live oriented features in a DAW, maybe because I own Live and DP10, and owned Kore.

Live does Clips, follow actions 'sort of' allow for Session clips (songs) to be chained together with a lot of work, or you can make an hour long arrangement etc. Switching VSTi's is not really there there though, I at one point used Kore to do this when I was playing more keys live, split keys with 2 or more VSTi's being switched in a song without me having to worry about anything but playing.

DP is way more set up for backing tracks, lighting controls, and navigating the open song. You can chain songs to open right after each other, so you're not looking at a sea of markers in the ten songs you're doing live. I find it much more useful in terms of navigation to only have the current song in the timeline.

Nobody is combining Clips, song switching, a tool like Kore for combining and switching instruments on the fly or by program change messages from the timeline etc. that's about the only part of the market I still see lacking.

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telecode
KVRian
819 posts since 24 Mar, 2015 from Toronto, Canada

Re: What do you think of the DAW market right now and for 2020?

Post Tue Aug 13, 2019 8:04 pm

machinesworking wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 7:41 pm
zerocrossing wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 9:39 pm
I really think that if we do see a new DAW, it’s from Native Instruments. It would be a smart move, if they roll it out as part of a new hardware interface... are you listening NI?

“Rekord.”

:lol:
Then they can truly abandon all new features in Maschine.
I am tierd of hearing this one . Perhaps stop comparing Maschine to Ableton and Bitwig and perhaps try to look at it as a product that does one thing but does it really well.
Just a keep on a goin' a forward, without a single ounce of fear

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BONES
GRRRRRRR!
8540 posts since 14 Jun, 2001 from Somewhere else, on principle

Re: What do you think of the DAW market right now and for 2020?

Post Tue Aug 13, 2019 8:31 pm

Yeah, I quite like Maschine and I have no doubt that if I really wanted to I could use it as my only DAW without too many problems. It's quick and easy.
NOVAkILL 4.0 : Dell G7 17 (Core i7, 8GB RAM, Win10), Behringer QX1002USB, Cubase, DUNE, Hive, Thorn, TRK-01, Equator, Substance, Arcsyn, Synthmaster One, Trueno, Analog Keys, MicroMonsta, Uno, Skulpt, Craft Synth 2.0

Benutzername
KVRist
328 posts since 23 Jan, 2008 from Hamburg, Germany

Re: What do you think of the DAW market right now and for 2020?

Post Wed Aug 14, 2019 3:24 am

When I compare the progress between 2009 and 2019 on the DAW market as a whole and the evolution of the individual DAWs in that period then I think that we should not talk about 2020 here. 2025 or even 2030 would be a better time frame for any significant changes (even Bitwig is more than 5 years on the market now).

machinesworking
KVRAF
1669 posts since 15 Aug, 2003 from seattle

Re: What do you think of the DAW market right now and for 2020?

Post Wed Aug 14, 2019 3:09 pm

telecode wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 8:04 pm
machinesworking wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 7:41 pm
zerocrossing wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 9:39 pm
I really think that if we do see a new DAW, it’s from Native Instruments. It would be a smart move, if they roll it out as part of a new hardware interface... are you listening NI?

“Rekord.”

:lol:
Then they can truly abandon all new features in Maschine.
I am tierd of hearing this one . Perhaps stop comparing Maschine to Ableton and Bitwig and perhaps try to look at it as a product that does one thing but does it really well.
It doesn't though, unless you mean 4/4 bangers. It's a piss poor drum machine, period. I've owned it for years, the main flaw is it cannot do more than one time signature in it's song timeline. It fails at doing what drum machines from the 1980's could do.

It's incredibly well thought out in every other way, except at its core. It's sequencer doesn't allow for live pattern jamming as well. So you're stuck mousing arrangements around.

I get that 90% of you never write anything outside of 4/4, and that's fine, but Maschine fails for me because of this. Inserted in a DAW as a VSTi I can work with it, but sometimes depending on the update, it fails at that as well.

I'm on to the MPC at this point, I keep it around for the few dozen songs I have it in, and with the hope that it gets a serious rewrite at some point, but it sure the hell will not if NI decide to do an actual DAW. Fix your dammed beat box first forchrissakes! :x

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zerocrossing
KVRAF
9780 posts since 26 Jun, 2006 from San Francisco Bay Area

Re: What do you think of the DAW market right now and for 2020?

Post Wed Aug 14, 2019 3:20 pm

machinesworking wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 3:09 pm
telecode wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 8:04 pm
machinesworking wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 7:41 pm
zerocrossing wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 9:39 pm
I really think that if we do see a new DAW, it’s from Native Instruments. It would be a smart move, if they roll it out as part of a new hardware interface... are you listening NI?

“Rekord.”

:lol:
Then they can truly abandon all new features in Maschine.
I am tierd of hearing this one . Perhaps stop comparing Maschine to Ableton and Bitwig and perhaps try to look at it as a product that does one thing but does it really well.
It doesn't though, unless you mean 4/4 bangers. It's a piss poor drum machine, period. I've owned it for years, the main flaw is it cannot do more than one time signature in it's song timeline. It fails at doing what drum machines from the 1980's could do.

It's incredibly well thought out in every other way, except at its core. It's sequencer doesn't allow for live pattern jamming as well. So you're stuck mousing arrangements around.

I get that 90% of you never write anything outside of 4/4, and that's fine, but Maschine fails for me because of this. Inserted in a DAW as a VSTi I can work with it, but sometimes depending on the update, it fails at that as well.

I'm on to the MPC at this point, I keep it around for the few dozen songs I have it in, and with the hope that it gets a serious rewrite at some point, but it sure the hell will not if NI decide to do an actual DAW. Fix your dammed beat box first forchrissakes! :x
Yeah, I’ve got a list of things that Maschine should do better, including more robust time signature support, but I doubt they’ll ever implement them. It’s a rare thing that I stay with it though a project, but it is great for quickly banging out simple stuff for real time comparison.

But, my Rekord idea would not be an extension of Maschine, but a new product that would have the full features of a modern DAW (along the lines of Bitwig) but have a dedicated control surface. Probably not a MIDI controller.
Zerocrossing Media

4th Law of Robotics: When turning evil, display a red indicator light. ~[ ●_● ]~

reggie1979
KVRian
1067 posts since 26 Nov, 2018

Re: What do you think of the DAW market right now and for 2020?

Post Wed Aug 14, 2019 3:26 pm

Please god, no more hosts. Just make the ones we use better :hyper:

machinesworking
KVRAF
1669 posts since 15 Aug, 2003 from seattle

Re: What do you think of the DAW market right now and for 2020?

Post Wed Aug 14, 2019 4:05 pm

zerocrossing wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 3:20 pm
Yeah, I’ve got a list of things that Maschine should do better, including more robust time signature support, but I doubt they’ll ever implement them. It’s a rare thing that I stay with it though a project, but it is great for quickly banging out simple stuff for real time comparison.

But, my Rekord idea would not be an extension of Maschine, but a new product that would have the full features of a modern DAW (along the lines of Bitwig) but have a dedicated control surface. Probably not a MIDI controller.
It doesn't have multi time signature support at all. You can get it to follow the time signatures of the DAW it's hosted in, and use MIDI note scene changes to work on measures in Maschine, then have that DAW take care of firing off the changes. That, like I said works about half the time, depending on the update.

What I fear the most with NI is what anybody who has any DAW for any length of time runs into, that they stretch themselves too thin chasing features (or in the case of NI whole new products), and do not finish or fix the rough edges with the features/products they have right now.

Or to put it more succinctly, NI flatly stated that maintaining and fixing fundamental flaws in Kore was going to be too costly and they were dumping Kore to concentrate on Maschine giving us all a cohesive product. Years later if they release a separate DAW, then they break that logic.

Why not just throw more development at Maschine, fix it's flaws and make it a full fledged DAW? This makes total sense to me, the MPC is half ass there, but it's stated they don't want to go that route etc. no more than 8 tracks of audio, no editing those tracks etc. So Maschine fills a distinct gap if it actually becomes a DAW, separates itself from the rest etc. To me this is almost a no brainer, Maschine is close, and if it becomes the front end for Komplete Control s series keyboards replacing KK, then all my bitching about NI is out the door and I'm in! :)

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Forgotten
KVRAF
2177 posts since 15 Apr, 2019 from Nowhere

Re: What do you think of the DAW market right now and for 2020?

Post Wed Aug 14, 2019 7:11 pm

reggie1979 wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 3:26 pm
Please god, no more hosts. Just make the ones we use better :hyper:
:tu:

acYm
KVRian
1004 posts since 11 Sep, 2015

Re: What do you think of the DAW market right now and for 2020?

Post Wed Aug 14, 2019 8:04 pm

Kore doesn't have much in the way of "fundamental flaws" (whoever at NI said that must suck so bad at synthesis), you could re-release it now, pretty much as it was, except add vst3, multi-core and side-chaining, just a handful of technicalities like that to move it up forward a decade - and it wipes the floor with everything on the market.

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BONES
GRRRRRRR!
8540 posts since 14 Jun, 2001 from Somewhere else, on principle

Re: What do you think of the DAW market right now and for 2020?

Post Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:33 pm

machinesworking wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 3:09 pm
It's a piss poor drum machine, period.
Is that all it's meant to be? To me it seems like a fairly well equipped sequencer. It feels about as much like drum machine as FL Studio does. I'd have thought Battery was NI's drum machine.
I've owned it for years, the main flaw is it cannot do more than one time signature in it's song timeline. It fails at doing what drum machines from the 1980's could do.
Maybe but that's a fairly easy thing to get around if you really need to. In 37 years of song writing, I'v needed to do that exactly once and I don't think I actually did by changing the time signature, just by working out how many bars of 3/4 I'd need to mesh properly with the 4/4 around it.
It's sequencer doesn't allow for live pattern jamming as well. So you're stuck mousing arrangements around.
I don't see a problem there, that requirement is covered in plenty of other applications.
zerocrossing wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 3:20 pm
But, my Rekord idea would not be an extension of Maschine, but a new product that would have the full features of a modern DAW (along the lines of Bitwig) but have a dedicated control surface. Probably not a MIDI controller.
What makes bigwig a "modern DAW"? I bought it thinking it might be that but I didn't enjoy the experience much. OTOH, Cubase feels like a thoroughly modern DAW to me. I realise there is a lot of legacy stuff in there as well but coming at it as a newbie in 2019, it feels really slick and modern compared to Orion (obviously), Bitwig or Maschine.
NOVAkILL 4.0 : Dell G7 17 (Core i7, 8GB RAM, Win10), Behringer QX1002USB, Cubase, DUNE, Hive, Thorn, TRK-01, Equator, Substance, Arcsyn, Synthmaster One, Trueno, Analog Keys, MicroMonsta, Uno, Skulpt, Craft Synth 2.0

Puddi
KVRist
54 posts since 20 Dec, 2018

Re: What do you think of the DAW market right now and for 2020?

Post Sun Aug 18, 2019 3:14 pm

I think the DAW market is pretty strong and there are a lot of good options. I was definitely happier though when I only knew one DAW and hadn't looked to see if the grass was greener on the other side lol.

After trying all of them Reaper ticks the most boxes for me since its tweakability is second to none. Rewire fixes the rest.

reggie1979
KVRian
1067 posts since 26 Nov, 2018

Re: What do you think of the DAW market right now and for 2020?

Post Sun Aug 18, 2019 4:55 pm

I think the DAW market is strong too, but you get a rasy for using reaper :hihi:

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