The Wagtunes Corner

[el-bo (formerly ebow)]

Oops! Didn't think they'd post up like that. Just meant to give the links.

Will give you a chance to check some, and then I'll delete the links

[wagtunes]

Ok! Probably quite a few things to say, but I'm pretty tired and would rather re-listen with fresh ears. Anyway, thought I'd give you the file now:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/9oaoe930g1sb5 ... 1.wav?dl=0

Seems you have to 'Open In New Tab'

Okay, well, the beat's great. In fact, it's amazing. Makes me wonder why the hell you don't do your own music and post it here. I have no doubt it would be excellent.

Having said that, obviously, the mix is, well, sounds like you added drums to a wav file, which you did.

So we have two choices. The easier one being you send me the MIDI for the drum part and, assuming it's in general MIDI format, I insert it into the drum track. I would still have to find just the right drum sounds and, obviously, separate the MIDI track into separate tracks in order to process each drum properly.

I won't even mention the harder option because I'm sure you wouldn't want to do it.

Anyway, terrific groove you got going there. Fits like a glove.

You're very good at this.

Now I understand why you get so critical of my music at times. I probably come off as a total amateur next to what you're capable of doing.

More than ever now I'd love to hear your music if you have any.

Thanks for your work on this.

I'm glad you like it. But it really is pretty understated. Like I said, it's supposed to be in service of the song, and I think you'd already set the pace, drive etc, but just didn't let the rhythm section do it's thing.

Anyway, it's late where I am. Time only for posting inane shit (in 3 words, possibly). There's definitely more to say about this track now that I've spent quite a few hours with it. And even though this was only meant as a proof of concept, I definitely put enough into it that I'd be happy to see it through with you to get the best version we can from it, if you wish.

Until then, here's some of my finished stuff, with some old ideas thrown in:

https://soundcloud.com/el-bo/sets/set-1

https://soundcloud.com/el-bo/sets/old-a ... circa-2005

That's a lot to listen to. I'll put aside some time tonight after dinner.

[wagtunes]

Oops! Didn't think they'd post up like that. Just meant to give the links.

Will give you a chance to check some, and then I'll delete the links

I followed you on Soundcloud so you can delete everything if you wish.

[el-bo (formerly ebow)]

Ok! Probably quite a few things to say, but I'm pretty tired and would rather re-listen with fresh ears. Anyway, thought I'd give you the file now:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/9oaoe930g1sb5 ... 1.wav?dl=0

Seems you have to 'Open In New Tab'

Nice work! Gives it a real, almost Motown, energy in parts.

The tambourine and cowbell, perhaps That always does it.

To be fair, I think that most of it was there in the original song. The only little cheeky off-beat stuff was in the bridge/chorus, and if you listen to Wags vocals (apart from a few rushed moments) his phrasing suggests that he was already in the pocket before it even appeared.

Thanks, though

[el-bo (formerly ebow)]

Ok! Probably quite a few things to say, but I'm pretty tired and would rather re-listen with fresh ears. Anyway, thought I'd give you the file now:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/9oaoe930g1sb5 ... 1.wav?dl=0

Seems you have to 'Open In New Tab'

Okay, well, the beat's great. In fact, it's amazing. Makes me wonder why the hell you don't do your own music and post it here. I have no doubt it would be excellent.

Having said that, obviously, the mix is, well, sounds like you added drums to a wav file, which you did.

So we have two choices. The easier one being you send me the MIDI for the drum part and, assuming it's in general MIDI format, I insert it into the drum track. I would still have to find just the right drum sounds and, obviously, separate the MIDI track into separate tracks in order to process each drum properly.

I won't even mention the harder option because I'm sure you wouldn't want to do it.

Anyway, terrific groove you got going there. Fits like a glove.

You're very good at this.

Now I understand why you get so critical of my music at times. I probably come off as a total amateur next to what you're capable of doing.

More than ever now I'd love to hear your music if you have any.

Thanks for your work on this.

I'm glad you like it. But it really is pretty understated. Like I said, it's supposed to be in service of the song, and I think you'd already set the pace, drive etc, but just didn't let the rhythm section do it's thing.

Anyway, it's late where I am. Time only for posting inane shit (in 3 words, possibly). There's definitely more to say about this track now that I've spent quite a few hours with it. And even though this was only meant as a proof of concept, I definitely put enough into it that I'd be happy to see it through with you to get the best version we can from it, if you wish.

Until then, here's some of my finished stuff, with some old ideas thrown in:

https://soundcloud.com/el-bo/sets/set-1

https://soundcloud.com/el-bo/sets/old-a ... circa-2005

That's a lot to listen to. I'll put aside some time tonight after dinner.

The two really long tunes (35 minutes each) are worth setting aside some calm moments, in the headphones, if you can be arsed

[wagtunes]

The two really long tunes (35 minutes each) are worth setting aside some calm moments, in the headphones, if you can be arsed

I started off listening to these.

lullaby for a dark future
Dadoes
Within Me (Without You)
Funk That !!
ambiente
mellow
When In Spain
Angry Bananas

My 2 favorites are lullaby and Bananas, which wasn't at all what I was expecting. I will probably be singing that melody to the finale the rest of the night and possibly for days.

Well, one thing is for sure. You're not a pop song writer.

I have to comment on the drums on Bananas. I'm going to take a wild stab at this and go out on a limb saying that you must be a drummer. You can't write drum parts like that without knowing how to play the drums.

Anyway, listening to your music, I can absolutely see you being successful doing production music. You might want to seriously give it some consideration. You have a nice diverse collection there.

I'll listen to more at another time. Right now I've got stuff to take care of.

[el-bo (formerly ebow)]

The two really long tunes (35 minutes each) are worth setting aside some calm moments, in the headphones, if you can be arsed

I started off listening to these.

lullaby for a dark future
Dadoes
Within Me (Without You)
Funk That !!
ambiente
mellow
When In Spain
Angry Bananas

My 2 favorites are lullaby and Bananas, which wasn't at all what I was expecting. I will probably be singing that melody to the finale the rest of the night and possibly for days.

Well, one thing is for sure. You're not a pop song writer.

I have to comment on the drums on Bananas. I'm going to take a wild stab at this and go out on a limb saying that you must be a drummer. You can't write drum parts like that without knowing how to play the drums.

Anyway, listening to your music, I can absolutely see you being successful doing production music. You might want to seriously give it some consideration. You have a nice diverse collection there.

I'll listen to more at another time. Right now I've got stuff to take care of.

Kinda surprised that you enjoyed 'Bananas'. It's a nice idea, but the execution in this case is a little drawn-out.

As for the drums on that track: No, I'm not a drummer; at least not in the sense of having any traditional training. I have been in bands with great drummers, and listen to a lot of music with great drumming, so I kind of take it all in via osmosis. I do know enough about drumming to be able to think a bit like a drummer, and to know what I can and can't get away with using four limbs etc.

With regard to laying down the drums in my music, I will almost always play the performance in, live (Finger-drumming), and then go back to quantise/edit timings, velocities etc. For instance, in the case of 'Bananas' and your piece, I just jam along with the music until I find a beat that suits, then keep recording takes until I get very close to the ideal performance. After that I either hard-quantise the performance (Bananas), or edit individual notes to bring them close to quantised while still retaining a human feel (City Juice).

Also, thanks for your comments about production music. I do think it is something to aim for. However, I still want to start learning some music theory before embarking on that journey. Waiting for inspiration to strike is all well and good when composing for my personal enjoyment, but trying to compose a decent body of work, at will or to-order, needs something of me that I currently don't have i.e language fluency and options

Anyway, thanks for the listen and the feedback. There are some other pieces on my SC page that I might have recommended above the one's you chose first. Hopefully, you'll get time one day to try them out

[el-bo (formerly ebow)]

Maybe over the weekend we can work out what to do with City Juice

[wagtunes]

Thanks for the explanation on the drumming. It makes sense. So your skill didn't come from a vacuum. Your exposure to great drummers had a lot to do with it.

Yes, I will be listening to more of your stuff as time permits. It's not like you have a ton of music up there. I can see that you work at a much slower pace than I do. I don't know how you have such patience.

As far as City Juice goes, whatever you think it best. I'll follow your lead on that.

[el-bo (formerly ebow)]

Thanks for the explanation on the drumming. It makes sense. So your skill didn't come from a vacuum. Your exposure to great drummers had a lot to do with it.

Yes, I will be listening to more of your stuff as time permits. It's not like you have a ton of music up there. I can see that you work at a much slower pace than I do. I don't know how you have such patience.

As far as City Juice goes, whatever you think it best. I'll follow your lead on that.

I'd say that having been exposed to good music is at the root of all the music I make.

As for the dearth of music on my SC: Much of my lack of music-making over the last few years has to do with my personal life, and issues with my living situation. Another issue is that while I enjoy playing music, the minute I hit record and have to start that whole process, all the fun starts draining from the experience. And lastly, after years of allowing myself to get away with shoddy-ness, I've now become a bit of a perfectionist - If it isn't gonna be done 'properly' then I'm just going to ditch it.

I have been playing/writing lately, so there is more chance of new material. And I will go back over the hundreds of started projects to work out what is worth pursuing and what will just become sample-fodder

[wagtunes]

I can't ever let myself become a perfectionist. I know me. I'll never get anything done. So for me, if it's "good enough" it's good enough. Especially since I know I have limited skills as a performer.

[el-bo (formerly ebow)]

Now I understand why you get so critical of my music at times. I probably come off as a total amateur next to what you're capable of doing.

And to come back and address this:

Firstly, I am also a total amateur. Secondly, it's not that you are incapable that makes me critical (Why anyone should be expected to get all parts of this music-making equation completely perfect is beyond frustrating!); it's your attitude of not caring to do the best you can that gets to me.

The last think this world needs at this point in time is sub-par 'content', but the world will always need good music.

We just have different work ethics pertaining to the balance between quality and quantity. The frustrating part with you is that you really can do quality when you put your mind to it, but you seem to always just defer to just throwing it all against the wall, and not seeming to care whether it sticks. It would be less of a problem if you didn't take it so personally when someone critiques your output.

Your last album (The Police inspired one) was something you seemed happy to spend more time on. But now you're back to trying to knock out an album in a few weeks. What's the rush?

More than that, though, is the stubborn-ness. When anyone dares to point out something that seems sub-par you dig your heels in, and start telling people that your sick of it all, and that all the drumming will be like that, "so prepare to hate that, also!".

This is not to have a go. I just wanted to clarify that it's not because I think you are incapable that is the issue.

It may turn out that drumming is the thing that you have to let go. I understand this might be a bitter pill for the ego to swallow, as you are a drummer. However, there are many different ways to get better drums into your work if you are not inclined to take the time to get it right, yourself. If you don't want to work with someone else to get drums onto your track, you can work with midi clips/grooves/drummers. These days, software makes it easy to ramp up/down the complexity of midi grooves so that it becomes quite easy to make a great progression that fits your song, either retro-actively, or building from the ground-up. There's no shame in this. Elton John didn't even need to write his own lyrics, never mind lay down his own beatz

Anyway, hopefully by this point you'll be able to take this in the spirit intended

[el-bo (formerly ebow)]

I can't ever let myself become a perfectionist. I know me. I'll never get anything done. So for me, if it's "good enough" it's good enough. Especially since I know I have limited skills as a performer.

Perfection is an illusion, so perfectionism is a horrible curse. I am not going for perfect. My lower threshold is being able to play it to someone without the whole excuse preamble. But I'll try to hit above that mark. Surprising myself is quite a good point to aim for. But 'the best I can do, at this point in time' is really where it's at.

Either way, for me "good enough" is not good enough. It's just getting by, or passing 'by the skin of one's teeth'. Ok for a maths exam, not so much for one's life's art

[vurt]

yes, you need to understand that when we are critical, it's not to put you down, it's to lift you up.

it's easy to break a man, much harder and more rewarding to help him grow.

[wagtunes]

Point taken. My drumming would be much better if I simply went out and bought a MIDI drum kit. And it's not even the expense. I can afford it. The problem is there is literally nowhere to put it. My "studio" (if you can call it that) is a corner of the living room. What I have there now (keyboard, computer, speakers) barely fits. There is simply no room for drums of any kind. So I have to play the parts on the keyboard, which is ridiculous as I only have 2 hands and with real drumming have 2 hands and 2 feet. Drums were never meant to be played on a keyboard.

Sure, I could probably still get them to sound "better" (though never totally human) but the work involved to do that is just too much for me to bother. And I hate those pre programmed grooves because they sound like, well, pre programmed grooves. They're monotonous and I hate them.

Maybe one day I'll make another breakthrough in my work ethic (I've made quite a few over the last 5 years) and things will improve yet some more. But I'm not going to sit around worrying about it. Life is too short.