Vengeance Producer Suite - AVENGER - 1.8.5 the main thread

[chk071]

Ok, dude i don't even know.

[Ryan99]

What everyone is not gathering, is this company's "battle" with piracy, unlike most companies, has NOTHING to do with money. They openly admit that with the intrusive protection system they want, LESS people are going to purchase it. This is about ego and pride, nothing else. Them and reFX have the same mentality, that's why they have outrageous pricing to begin with, EGO. That's why their sample packs are insane prices and will never be available on new age sites like splice, etc. EGO. It's not about money, Splice has packs from Grammy nominated producers for pennies on the dollar and this company wants $80 for a sample pack. They could make money hand over fist if they got with the times, but their EGO and control issues get in the way.

That could all be fine, it's their prerogative, but the difference is they don't want any of the money to come out of their precious profits, so YOU have to pay extra so other people don't steal from them, that is the key here. When it was their mistake in the first place to choose not to protect it.

That could be fine too, depending on how you look at it and if you feel like paying for their security, BUT the factor that makes this even more crazy, is they just had that crazy sale, the first of it's kind, and I couldn't count how many people were saying they bought a 5 pack of expansions, and right after that big sale, they "discovered" the plugin was pirated. The coincidence of it all. I get it, updates aren't guaranteed and all that, but you know what people like to buy when they have a synth? Expansions. Now,, if you want the future expansions, after the security update, you HAVE to pay extra for the synth to buy the overpriced to begin with expansions............ you had no way to know this would be the case at the time of purchase and I will bet almost everyone that purchased it planned on buying future expansions.

I think at the very least, they should offer refunds to anyone that should want it, because essentially what many of you may have recently purchased, is abandon-ware without further monetary investment by 100% fault of the company themselves and furthermore they don't want to put any time, money, or effort into the real problem, legal action against pirates and if they can't prosecute the actual thieves, it makes one wonder if it's really all that illegal in the first place.

Wow! A ton of bull**** for someone who is making his first post and created his account today!!! You clearly have an agenda to do such a thing...

I’m one of those customers who bought 2 5-Pack of expansions during the sale. I can confirm that all the cracking happened following the sale, I saw the website were it started. I had already registered 3 expansions, and seeing them available for free a couple of days after is not very pleasant.

So yes, a new copy protection is mandatory. You can argue till the end of time about the choice being made, but it’s an answer to seeing Avenger and all the expansions available for free on the net.

I doubt that prosecuting pirates who share their stuff for free will give them any substantial money after paying the lawyers, especially if the pirates lives in a foreign country.

[KenjiDeVries]

I’m one of those customers who bought 2 5-Pack of expansions during the sale. I can confirm that all the cracking happened following the sale, I saw the website were it started.

No, there already were cracked Avenger & Expansion version available before the sale. IIRC this has been also brought up in the thread when it happened. I agree the dimensions started to grow after the sale.

[Ryan99]

I’m one of those customers who bought 2 5-Pack of expansions during the sale. I can confirm that all the cracking happened following the sale, I saw the website were it started.

No, there already were cracked Avenger & Expansion version available before the sale. IIRC this has been also brought up in the thread when it happened. I agree the dimensions started to grow after the sale.

What was available before the sale was a previous version of Avenger and a couple of expansions, all of them not working with the newest versions of Avenger. This time, it’s the current version which is cracked, and all the expansions are unlocked, which means they can work with a legit version of Avenger. They even managed to create a second version of Avenger that could work besides your legit version. So you could continue upgrading your legit version and continue using all the expansions released up until now with the cracked version. What a mess...

[msvs]

@KenjiDeVries but this was an "old" version... v1.2.2. It was no "crack" either... someone just shared his license key. This version had not granular synthesis, Arp chord mode, comb filter and dozens of other new main features, which came after 1.2.2. No need to say, that only XPs prior to 1.2.2. were working with it. Then we implemented a new keyfile system, which was safe for a long time. Rene is not a cryptographer and he did his best in the short time, but finally, well you know

[Ryan99]

I don’t agree with the pricing of the expansions, at 70$ a piece I found them overpriced. When they were on sale at 28$ each on a 5 pack, it was a more reasonable price for me. I may disagree with the regular prices, but it’s their business and their living, so having all their expansions available for free, it must be a direct hit to their business. So to continue with the same copy protection and keeping releasing expansions which will continue to get cracked one after another is not a working business model.

[Trancit]

Now that we agree, that it´s a business decision to protect your goods, what method do you use to protect your jewelry store?? The method already failed or the method noone was able to break till now...

The store would actually lose the jewelry if someone robbed it so they need heavier protection. Also protection on real store is mostly inconvenient for owner, not customer.

Seriously...???

They loose the jewels...true... but as long as they don´t shit them out themselves, they bought them before...and now as they are gone they have to buy them again......... at the very end: they loose money!!!!!!!!!!!! What a conclusion....

With a fully and working cracked software, even if crack user do not steal the software, the effect is the same... noone (or very little) who got a working crack running, goes out and buys the software....
at the very end: Manuel and crew loose money!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Hey, we got a winner.......

And now tell me again: What did you say was the difference????

[Orbit-50]

memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=448026

Gotta love people who only register for the purpose of venting against companies. We really need more of those, because this site is so short of them.

Yeah, it's getting kind of ridiculous with the "beating of the dead horse" posts. Also, the nickel and diming crap going on around here. It seems as if though that's all that matters these days. Discussion of the plugin itself is secondary. It's become all about the copy protection and price.

[chk071]

Yes. By a handful of people who are overly vocal, and think they're entitled to speak for... well, who exactly?

[starflakeprj]

...so devs tend to focus on getting customers to pay rather than starting crusades against piracy and crippling their existing customers. As you might be aware of, other companies whose synths have been cracked, are still doing well despite cracked versions.

When it comes to gaming, most people want to play games online, connecting to official servers. Gamers seem to have no problem going online, so it's easier to accept gaming piracy for the developers/studios. The people complaining here don't want to go online, for some reason.

It's hard to compare games to plugins on any level. The difference in the amount of sold licenses is huge. And as far as I know, you can't sell a registered game second hand, like you can do with most plugins.

And how do you know companies whos synths have been cracked are doing well? Sure, companies like NI, UVI, Arturia and Waves, the larger ones, might not hurt as much from piracy, but smaller developers, they surely do.

[Vladislav_Gronk]

Seriously...???

They loose the jewels...true... but as long as they don´t shit them out themselves, they bought them before...and now as they are gone they have to buy them again......... at the very end: they loose money!!!!!!!!!!!! What a conclusion....

With a fully and working cracked software, even if crack user do not steal the software, the effect is the same... noone (or very little) who got a working crack running, goes out and buys the software....
at the very end: Manuel and crew loose money!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Hey, we got a winner.......

And now tell me again: What did you say was the difference????

If you directly compare physical product with software it's not worth discussing.

Every pirated download =/= lost customer

Many companies seem to go around even if they have been cracked so I don't believe that. They decide convenience for paying customer goes first. Others get butthurt.

[starflakeprj]

Seriously...???

They loose the jewels...true... but as long as they don´t shit them out themselves, they bought them before...and now as they are gone they have to buy them again......... at the very end: they loose money!!!!!!!!!!!! What a conclusion....

With a fully and working cracked software, even if crack user do not steal the software, the effect is the same... noone (or very little) who got a working crack running, goes out and buys the software....
at the very end: Manuel and crew loose money!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Hey, we got a winner.......

And now tell me again: What did you say was the difference????

If you directly compare physical product with software it's not worth discussing.

Every pirated download =/= lost customer

Other companies seem to go around even if they have been cracked. They decide convenience for paying customer goes first. Others get butthurt.

No, the developer will loose more money due to piracy than the jewelry store will. But you are correct regarding that all pirated copies are not lost sales.

[Rivanni]

I’m one of those customers who bought 2 5-Pack of expansions during the sale. I can confirm that all the cracking happened following the sale, I saw the website were it started. I had already registered 3 expansions, and seeing them available for free a couple of days after is not very pleasant.

They were not free.
You bought your expansions to pay the creator isn't it? What difference does it make for you that the packs got cracked? Or would you have downloaded those so called free packs?
Those cracks are bad for the developers/creators but it makes not difference for the expansions you bought and how much you paid for them.

So yes, a new copy protection is mandatory. You can argue till the end of time about the choice being made, but it’s an answer to seeing Avenger and all the expansions available for free on the net.

Crap. Avenger and all expansions are pirated for years now, so the cracked versions of the past sale are no excuse to push to introduction of CP forward.

[Vladislav_Gronk]

No, the developer will loose more money due to piracy than the jewelry store will.

What is that based on?

On the pirate website forum comments, cracked Avenger expansions were used by paying Avenger customers, so yes there’s a real potential for lost sales.

I'm sure there is some potential loss but is it worth making it harder for people who actually pay instead of the ones who "potentially" might pay? I'm not as sure about that.

[Ryan99]

I’m one of those customers who bought 2 5-Pack of expansions during the sale. I can confirm that all the cracking happened following the sale, I saw the website were it started. I had already registered 3 expansions, and seeing them available for free a couple of days after is not very pleasant.

They were not free.
You bought your expansions to pay the creator isn't it? What difference does it make for you that the packs got cracked? Or would you have downloaded those so called free packs?
Those cracks are bad for the developers/creators but it makes not difference for the expansions you bought and how much you paid for them.

So yes, a new copy protection is mandatory. You can argue till the end of time about the choice being made, but it’s an answer to seeing Avenger and all the expansions available for free on the net.

Crap. Avenger and all expansions are pirated for years now, so the cracked versions of the past sale are no excuse to push to introduction of CP forward.

Some expansions were available with a previous version, not working with the following versions. Now almost all expansions are unlocked, working with a legit version.

And when I pay for something, it’s frustrating that anyone can have the same sounds available for nothing.