KVR Audio

Funkybot's Evil Twin · Thu Jul 18, 2019 3:26 pm

plexuss wrote: ↑Thu Jul 18, 2019 2:14 pm
lasteno wrote: ↑Thu Jul 18, 2019 12:04 pm yeah it should have a option for realtime quality and rendering quality.. x1,x2,x3,x4 etc .. real time.. in a project it is impossible to use.. the sound it is pretty good ¡
+1 this is a big limiting factor of the product. it would be easy to implement and on- and off-line render setting and this would solve this problem so more people can use these emulations. very strange IK didn't implement it since it would result in more sales.

I kind of like they fact they went for a brute force approach. At least with the tapes. I don't mind rendering a tape plugin as part of mix-prep. Maybe they could've used less oversampling and the only downside would've been a bit of aliasing, and sure, if that were the case, I'd favor having a realtime vs. render set of modes. But maybe the really CPU intensive piece has a lot more to do with the dynamic convolution, or the impact to the sound would be more significant than we imagine. If that were the case, then I wouldn't want them to compromise the sound quality substantially for a low-CPU mode. The IK developers are probably the only ones who can truly say, but I'm sure they didn't take the decision to use high oversampling/CPU lightly and understood that could be a big turn off to some people. All I know, as an end user, is these tapes sound fantastic and I'm glad they did what they did to make that happen.

plexuss · Post by **plexuss** » Thu Jul 18, 2019 3:50 pm

Funkybot's Evil Twin wrote: ↑Thu Jul 18, 2019 3:26 pm
plexuss wrote: ↑Thu Jul 18, 2019 2:14 pm
lasteno wrote: ↑Thu Jul 18, 2019 12:04 pm yeah it should have a option for realtime quality and rendering quality.. x1,x2,x3,x4 etc .. real time.. in a project it is impossible to use.. the sound it is pretty good ¡
+1 this is a big limiting factor of the product. it would be easy to implement and on- and off-line render setting and this would solve this problem so more people can use these emulations. very strange IK didn't implement it since it would result in more sales.
I kind of like they fact they went for a brute force approach. At least with the tapes. I don't mind rendering a tape plugin as part of mix-prep. Maybe they could've used less oversampling and the only downside would've been a bit of aliasing, and sure, if that were the case, I'd favor having a realtime vs. render set of modes. But maybe the really CPU intensive piece has a lot more to do with the dynamic convolution, or the impact to the sound would be more significant than we imagine.

Good point. From what has been said here by IK, only high rates of over-sampling were mentioned. But yes there could be some other overhead that can't be reduced easily. Thanks for making that point.

lasteno wrote: ↑Thu Jul 18, 2019 12:04 pm If that were the case, then I wouldn't want them to compromise the sound quality substantially for a low-CPU mode.

I prefer "Give the user control" (a usability best practise) - I'd prefer to have control over load vs CPU in all cases of all plugins. This way I can adjust to suit my workflow and system. The choice of quality vs load should be user controlled, not imposed by the dev. This is especially true of high load tools. Otherwise it can limit usability to the point of non-usability. Already we've seen people post here that they will not buy because of this. And for users like you, you can just keep it all on high load high quality. Giving the user the choice is always the best way to go in terms of usability.

lasteno wrote: ↑Thu Jul 18, 2019 12:04 pm The IK developers are probably the only ones who can truly say, but I'm sure they didn't take the decision to use high oversampling/CPU lightly and understood that could be a big turn off to some people. All I know, as an end user, is these tapes sound fantastic and I'm glad they did what they did to make that happen.

Well... often these decisions are not made by the devs, but by the business. The business wants a "minimum viable product" MVP more than they want good usability. They want to reduce the cost on their end to maximize profits. Those in design and dev often have to comprimise the quality of their work to meet business requirements around profit. This is because of the "corporate coup d'eta".

I like the IK tapes. They sound really good. But I am limited in what I can do with them due to high CPU load. It remains to be seen if they will end up being used by me in general or not - if they start interfering with my ability to get music done, they will have to go. unfortunately.

simon.a.billington · Post by **simon.a.billington** » Sun Sep 15, 2019 3:31 pm

I too am for this real-time and off-line rendering options and making these options easily customisable by the user. The process or writing, recording and mixing is becoming quite complex, managing CPU load is quickly becoming a modern day thing.

It would be nice if all devs started supporting this.

HcDoom · Post by **HcDoom** » Sun Sep 15, 2019 5:35 pm

in 2 years you will be able to use 10 to 15 instances in a big project, dont worry.

simon.a.billington · Post by **simon.a.billington** » Thu Sep 19, 2019 2:01 pm

HcDoom wrote: ↑Sun Sep 15, 2019 5:35 pm in 2 years you will be able to use 10 to 15 instances in a big project, dont worry.

Then there is that. Provided you’ve upgraded your computer.

electro · Post by **electro** » Mon Sep 30, 2019 9:25 am

It would be a mistake IMO for IK to compromise the sonics of their tape emulations with a low CPU mode. Its one plugin type that has to sound and react just like the real thing otherwise you defeat the purpose.

kj.metissage · Post by **kj.metissage** » Mon Sep 30, 2019 12:19 pm

electro wrote: ↑Mon Sep 30, 2019 9:25 am It would be a mistake IMO for IK to compromise the sonics of their tape emulations with a low CPU mode. Its one plugin type that has to sound and react just like the real thing otherwise you defeat the purpose.

Agreed !

Bring on an AMPEX 350/351 next, please.

Vortifex · Post by **Vortifex** » Mon Sep 30, 2019 3:20 pm

DarkStar · Post by **DarkStar** » Mon Sep 30, 2019 3:30 pm

If you install T-RackS (and Custom Shop and Authorisation Manager) you should have access to all the T-RackS plug-in to try them out.

T-RackS User Manual: 1.3.4 - Trying Gear
You can also choose to try out a piece of gear (clicking the TRY button) to audition it in your existing rig before actually buying it. Every item in the Custom Shop has a 14 days unrestricted trial time. When an item is selected for trial, the time left for its evaluation is shown in the corresponding item menu.

Once the trial time has expired, the item will be locked – it will be grayed out. Once the trial time has expired the module will only be purchasable on the Custom Shop or IK online store.

NOTE: multiple instances of the same item will not affect the total time of the trial period. The counter starts with the first one. Modules can be tried within the T-RackS 5 suite as well as singles in third party DAWs.

plexuss · Post by **plexuss** » Mon Sep 30, 2019 3:38 pm

electro wrote: ↑Mon Sep 30, 2019 9:25 am It would be a mistake IMO for IK to compromise the sonics of their tape emulations with a low CPU mode. Its one plugin type that has to sound and react just like the real thing otherwise you defeat the purpose.

I think it would be better to have a low CPU mode for those that want to conserve CPU but still get some semblance of the Tape plugin sound. Right now, for me, on a 3GHz 12-core system, I have to TURN OFF all the Tape plugins while mixing and turn them on for a render. This is a worse-case than if I had a low CPU mode where I could still get some semblance of them while mixing. It would also give users more flexibility to prioritize CPU usage vs sound quality while mixing. Otherwise there are a lot of people that simply won't buy them or use them because of the CPU drain. In summary, including real-time and off-line over-sampling settings makes digital tools more usable across more people and projects. See the way it's done with Cytomic products for a best-in-class example.

simon.a.billington · Post by **simon.a.billington** » Mon Sep 30, 2019 4:01 pm

plexuss wrote: ↑Mon Sep 30, 2019 3:38 pm
electro wrote: ↑Mon Sep 30, 2019 9:25 am It would be a mistake IMO for IK to compromise the sonics of their tape emulations with a low CPU mode. Its one plugin type that has to sound and react just like the real thing otherwise you defeat the purpose.
I think it would be better to have a low CPU mode for those that want to conserve CPU but still get some semblance of the Tape plugin sound. Right now, for me, on a 3GHz 12-core system, I have to TURN OFF all the Tape plugins while mixing and turn them on for a render. This is a worse-case than if I had a low CPU mode where I could still get some semblance of them while mixing. It would also give users more flexibility to prioritize CPU usage vs sound quality while mixing. Otherwise there are a lot of people that simply won't buy them or use them because of the CPU drain. In summary, including real-time and off-line over-sampling settings makes digital tools more usable across more people and projects. See the way it's done with Cytomic products for a best-in-class example.

Giving people flexibility with how they want to work and when to use a higher quality setting doesn’t make it an inferior tool. If it expands its usefulness it makes it a BETTER tool.

It’s only inferior if you don’t have the high quality option

PatchAdamz · Post by **PatchAdamz** » Mon Sep 30, 2019 6:15 pm

HcDoom wrote: ↑Sun Sep 15, 2019 5:35 pm in 2 years you will be able to use 10 to 15 instances in a big project, dont worry.

Well, maybe 4-5 years....

Obsolete236871 · Post by **Obsolete236871** » Mon Sep 30, 2019 6:44 pm

electro wrote: ↑Mon Sep 30, 2019 9:25 am It would be a mistake IMO for IK to compromise the sonics of their tape emulations with a low CPU mode. Its one plugin type that has to sound and react just like the real thing otherwise you defeat the purpose.

It's not about "compromising" the quality of sound. Best practice is to offer a lower CPU realtime option and an option to automatically switch to higher quality mode during rendering. That's a pragmatic and efficient approach. Of course the sound and even the volume levels might be slightly different in the high quality rendered version, but not significantly and not in any negative way.

Vortifex · Post by **Vortifex** » Mon Sep 30, 2019 6:57 pm

uraniumwilly · Post by **uraniumwilly** » Sat Jan 04, 2020 7:38 am

This is my take on the IKMM Tape Machines: 1) Ridiculous use of CPU even when nothing else is in a project. Just the plugin alone. 2) I don't hear anything different. Nothing. After I drop in a mixed down project to test it I go through each preset of each machine and I hear nothing different. Zero. The I read about how it has to take up so much CPU to do its job, but what is its job exactly? Doing nothing? I tested them but thank God I did that first. I will not being paying money for these.

IK Multimedia T-racks Tape Machine Collection