Native Instruments Layoffs?

[vurt]

im waiting on uli to post
"yeah, so we took on those programmers from ni, can totally see why they let them go, so we wre looking for programmers again"

[Gamma-UT]

are there any businessmen who are good at music?
like famous for business but rock a mean keytar at the weekend?
alan sugar on drums? trump on keys? branson on guitar and vics?

Off the top of my head, Aart de Geus, chairman of Synopsys, is a pretty good blues guitarist and also plays piano, though a little stiff stylewise.

It's not exactly common though.

[vurt]

are there any businessmen who are good at music?
like famous for business but rock a mean keytar at the weekend?
alan sugar on drums? trump on keys? branson on guitar and vics?

Off the top of my head, Aart de Geus, chairman of Synopsys, is a pretty good blues guitarist and also plays piano, though a little stiff stylewise.

It's not exactly common though.

tbh i was just messing, because everyone was saying the other way around was possible/impossible
figured id confuse them by framing the argument backwards

[Gamma-UT]

tbh i was just messing, because everyone was saying the other way around was possible/impossible
figured id confuse them by framing the argument backwards

I know but I saw it and thought "Well I know of at least one".

He did play alongside John Lee Hooker...though his company did book a party at the Boom Boom Room that night, which might have had something to do with it.

[vurt]

tbh if i had that kind of money, id be buying gigs with all my heroes

[telecode]

are there any businessmen who are good at music?
like famous for business but rock a mean keytar at the weekend?
alan sugar on drums? trump on keys? branson on guitar and vics?

Jimmy Buffet. I guess more a average singer song writer but shrewd business man.

[Forgotten]

Bill Clinton is a pretty good baritone sax player

[telecode]

Compared to some of you peeps on here, I am a less experienced at computer music and synths, but i can't be the only one that has noticed that most of the innovation and advances in quality computer music software seems to be coming from Germany, Scandanavia .. you can't tell me they can't find any other smart business people that came from the innovative companies in those regions and they had to resort to recruiting from Internet commerce companies?

That just tells me that the new NI are more interested in becoming yet another internet e-commerce company and not as interested in continuing to be a innovator in music software industry..

[toonertik]

Bill Clinton is a pretty good intern sex player

ftfy..

[Forgotten]

Compared to some of you peeps on here, I am a less experienced at computer music and synths, but i can't be the only one that has noticed that most of the innovation and advances in quality computer music software seems to be coming from Germany, Scandanavia .. you can't tell me they can't find any other smart business people that came from the innovative companies in those regions and they had to resort to recruiting from Internet commerce companies?

That just tells me that the new NI are more interested in becoming yet another internet e-commerce company and not as interested in continuing to be a innovator in music software industry..

I think you're making 2+2=5

It really doesn't tell me anything about strategies at NI, just that they are hiring from various areas other than the ones they might have previous hired from.

[digitalboytn]

Yeah. I don't think I agree. I think it's more important having someone experienced in running businesses that are on the music industry. If they had hired a bunch of peeps from Yamaha or Roland or Fender.. I would be , okay, let's see where this goes. But hiring someone with a background in travel e commerce industry or ad sales is iffy. But what do I know. I am just another shmo on the internet.

I believe that both the Fender and Roland Corporations are now owned,or are majority owned by private equity companies...

But of course,the bean counters running the show are passionate about music...

Kaching $$$

Accountants have an important role to play in any organisation,but qite often,their importance is overstated..

If a company is focused on producing inspiring and useful products that satisfy the demands of the users, then you would think that you would have the genesis of successful company,especially given the point to point access that the internet provides...

Non musicians would bring a welcome focus to the business structure,so that the balance between the creative and the logistic sides of the equation could be achieved...

But when the bean counters are in control,then the focus is primarily on the money and that is where the model fails,due to lack of inspiration at the product level...

In fuedal Japan,the true artisans were near the top of the tree,because they inspired people with their art and helped to lift people out of their mundane existence...

The samurai were up there too,because they had a code of honour and respect (Boshido) and this contributed to a higher level of consciousness...

They also carried a couple of rather sharp swords that garnered a fair amount of respect as well...

The bean counters were in the mix too,but they were near the bottom because their role in the inspiration was pretty low on the totem pole...

Money was needed for wars and that sort of carry on...

But we have come a long way from feudal Japan...

Or have we ?

Now the bean counters are in control and the equation has become a little lopsided...

They did wonders in the music business and they are spreading their wings and wringing the soul out of most fields of endeavour these days...

But the rise of the machines is fairly egalitarian and in due course,many of those sharp suited sharks with the MBAs will be replaced with an algorithm or a robot...

In fact,it's already happening...

Thank God for that...

Maybe we might get a bit of balance back into the whole equation and the artisans just might get to rise up a few notches on the totem pole,to inspire the masses as they gaze upon the machines engaged in what were human enterprises...

Even the unemployed bean counters,reflecting on their fall from grace,may find some respose in acitivites that inspire a higher level of consciousness and good will to all mankind...

We can only pray

[telecode]

Yeah. I don't think I agree. I think it's more important having someone experienced in running businesses that are on the music industry. If they had hired a bunch of peeps from Yamaha or Roland or Fender.. I would be , okay, let's see where this goes. But hiring someone with a background in travel e commerce industry or ad sales is iffy. But what do I know. I am just another shmo on the internet.

I believe that both the Fender and Roland Corporations are now owned,or are majority owned by private equity companies...

But of course,the bean counters running the show are passionate about music...

Kaching....kaching $$$

I recall this article not too long ago.

https://www.cmo.com/interviews/articles ... #gs.3gwzzh

Basically, he markets guitars like shoes. More artist co branded products as a result is last few years. Do Fender even make any decent guitars that are.priced right anymore.

[codec_spurt]

This. Musicians know sh** about business. How many of them manage big careers without manager or someone outside (or inside) band who is a manager/businessman? Only few. Business require skills and education (knowledge) that musicians not necessary have.

you realize you probably run the chance of offending a lot people here on KvR who happen to be musicians, family people, and very successful business people

It wasn't quite the point I was making either - musicians would of course be great employees for NI, but it would be beneficial to get guidance from others with a strong business background. My point about musicians is that they might be more likely to have 'pet' projects and push them, but if the company needs to focus more on profits then an objective view of the market would be useful.

My point was that to run a company like NI (which is not a wee family business) it's better to have someone skilled in running a business in first place and then (eventually) being a musician at a second place. Not the other way around.

Yeah. I don't think I agree. I think it's more important having someone experienced in running businesses that are on the music industry. If they had hired a bunch of peeps from Yamaha or Roland or Fender.. I would be , okay, let's see where this goes. But hiring someone with a background in travel e commerce industry or ad sales is iffy. But what do I know. I am just another shmo on the internet.

BTW... You are incorrect about musicians knowing nothing about business. Successful musicians that have lasted a long time and had long careers in music industry are very smart and crafty entrepreneur types. Beck, Trent Reznor et la... Much brighter than MBA shmos jumping around with buzz words and far fetched business ideas. The Google AirBNB MBA shmos will just jump somewhere else when it fails... The musicans have nowhere.to jump ship to.. the business and industry is them. It's their livelyhood.

The ousted Gibson guitars former CEO spent his entire career at Gibson. He ran the company since 1986. I would not hire the guy to run another music company.

Beck and Trent Reznor might be very intelligent people. But they might not have the necessary chops to manage large numbers of people. That's a wholly different ball game. You may be intelligent but without the earned life experience of managing large teams of highly competitive sharks you will struggle. I would not be surprised if Beck was an introvert, a lot of musicians are.

Beck and Trent Reznor are probably above average IQ, but probably not much more above that (statistically very few people are). Then again, they may be in that small demographic. There's also the same statistical probability that they are below average IQ (see the Bell Curve theory).

Without knowing their deeper machinations, and appealing to the law of mediocrity, let us just assume that they are average. In other words, intelligence has little to do with this.

And no, they probably don't have the 'chops' to manage large groups of people networked in an organized fashion. No single human does. But you can be sure they have the smarts to be able to delegate, even when they have to abdicate responsibility to higher powers such as managers etc. etc.

So being intelligent doesn't help much in this game. Being unintelligent helps as much because lower IQ people tend to be more distrusting and 'paranoid' of others. It's a survival mechanism. It's crude. And it doesn't work in the short term all the time, but longer game wise, it brings results most the time. See natural selection.

Very few people have the earned life experience of managing large teams of highly competitive sharks.

In fact, if you knew Trent or Beck personally, you would know that they are the biggest sharks that swim in the waters. They are also, first and foremost, and much more than being musicians/producer/songwriters, businessmen.

Some of the most successful businessmen ever to walk this earth. They created, then sold, then managed, then maintained an ideal, an image. And the reason they are top of the tree is because they did it all themselves, with everyone else falling in to second place at their command. They are true moguls. Everyone else around them is just playing catch up and trying not to get beheaded, such is the power of the throne they rule on. Yes, think Game of Thrones.

They are masters of their own destiny, as any exceptional businessman must be. Sure, they are also exceptional musicians/writers/producers too, and sure, they are in the minor part of the demographic world wide, historically... people like them just don't come along very often. But do not conflate that fact with the false assumption they are bad businessmen. That is what I took from your argument. Apologies if I jumped the gun a bit there.

And more than that, Beck and Trent are not just exceptionally good businessmen, they are incredibly good 'rulers' as well. Think 'mafia don'. These people rule with an iron fist. Sometimes they coat it in an iron glove but at othertimes, what the hell eh, pour encourager les autres will just as much be their mantra. IOW they rule through fear. Fear of losing your job, fear of not being accepted in to the clique, fear of losing that sale, fear of being sued, fear of many things.

It is better to be feared than well liked.

Nice people don't get ahead. Ruthless people do.

Now, I'm not saying Beck or Trent torture young kittens; I'm pretty sure they don't. But they don't cut much slack either, of that I'm sure. It's all about them them them, me me me.

Alec Empire is another one of that similar mindset, but he didn't quite hit the big time (Atari Teenage Riot). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alec_Empire

He is still a musical genius. And also an exceptional businessman. But the luck does not flow for everyone the same way. He made a good life and made a success of his career. Just an order of magnitude less. Which is why we aren't talking about him, but about Trent and Beck.


One person we aren't talking about is Moby. He is probably one of the most ruthless businessmen of the 20th Century. He's cultivated an air of 'butter would not melt' as all great assassins do. I've talked about him before and don't want to spend too many more heartbeats on him. You can decide for yourself if he is talented. I think he's 'not bad'. But where he excels is in the sheer ruthlessness of his ability to cull all around him while just focusing on me me me. He absolutely wrecked the whole Mega Dog thing. But why open old wounds. You kinda had to be there. And it's been memory holed pretty much.

Moby makes Beck and Trent look like a pair of little puppies when it comes to how business is done and public image. Beck has that aloof kind of thing going on, and sure, he's aloof alright. Trent has that kind of don't mess with me I'm a crazy ex-goth thing going on, and that's probably true to form as well. But Moby? Lovable cuddly Moby?


All the best and most successful musicians/producers/songwriters are first and foremost successful and brutal businessmen, bar none. To think otherwise is to be naive or engage in magical thinking.

I could give so many examples. Off the top of my head... oohhhh Bill Drummond. Known in the industry for being a 'Shark', but as far as I know, he never ripped anyone off, but then again, he wasn't going to get ripped off by anybody himself. That's probably why he got a million pounds. And burned it. Yeah.

Bill built the KLF up from nothing with Jimmy and they made a real going concern of things. They retired on their own grounds. No one's fools. Sharp practice here and there maybe, but no outright fraud. Just bad bastard businessmen. First and foremost.

That's a pretty good example of what I'm talking about, so I'll leave it there.


On the other side, CEO or multi-billionaires that play instruments or are exceptional musicians? There are a few of them. But again, they are rare even though they do exist. Mostly they are of the super talented kind because to become a billionaire you need to put the time in. Spending 8 hours a day like me, six days a week to become the next David Gilmour only pays off for a small percentage of people. These guys just practiced half an hour a day, once a week and became just about as good as Gilmour was ever going to get.

Extreme musical talent is common. Those that spent the hard earned hours don't want to admit it, and they rarely get to see it, but for most people, especially those people successful in life, those able to live in big houses, travel to any part of the world on a whim, able to maintain their core family, plus maintain their business concerns, well, they just don't care.

Socially, to be a musician is the lowest of the low. These days anyway, it wasn't always this way through history, though sometimes, it was worse than being a 'whore'.

No one cares if you can play guitar as good as Jimmy Hendrix, no one cares if you can write a beautiful ballad, no one cares if you can work an SSL like a musical instrument like Mark 'Spike' Stent.

Sure those achievements will get you invited on to the yacht to party. But you are lauded for your success and your achievements, not your abilities or your best of intentions (and failures). No one cares about your humanity or your musical prowess. No one cares about anything other than quick soundbites to introduce you to the next socialite they can brag about.

Your 'art' counts for f**k all. Do you really think that the rich and powerful or the poor and weak are ever going to say to someone: Oh, your music is really shit!

And musicians/producers/songwriters are the lowest of the low, just about, in the social pecking order. So you better have some Platinum records to back you up...

But it's worse than that. One thing that a lot of musicians/producers/songwriters don't realise is that they are hated by the general population as a whole who see them as egotistical chancers with ideas above their station. They don't care either. They hate your music and they hate you.

There is a reason why musicians/producers/songwriters are held in such contempt. And just to make sure that I end up offending everyone on the forum (not my intention) try telling someone you are a rock-star VST coder like Urs or Didier or Angus! Good luck with that. Even more intangible again, for bragging rights anyway.

Musicians/producers/songwriters, on the whole are not power-mongers.

And neither are VST coders and developers.

OK, maybe with the exception of Native Instruments!



Beck is a power-monger. Trent is a power-monger. Moby is a power-monger.

And if you are reading this post right now, you are probably not.


And on a far off Pacific Island, a multi billionaire whips out his vintage '68 Strat, and he rocks the joint, totally rips it down, on his own personal yacht that has the GDP of a small English Town.


Exceptional musical talent is very common. And just because you excel at business does not mean you won't excel at being a great drummer or guitarist.

It's nice to think the 'idle' rich don't possess skills that we 'tortured souls' do. But it's not true.


Having said all that, it's true, on the whole, making money, power mongering, generally takes a different mind set.

But there are many rich people who could hold their own with the best of musicians. And there are many musicians who are so successful in business they could hold their own with the best of businessmen.

Each has chosen their own poison. That is where they shine their light for you to look. But look a little deeper, and they, like many people, have strength in depth.



Beck was an introvert, a lot of musicians are.

I think you'll find that most introverts don't choose to make music videos and prance around on stage. Some musicians may be introverts (I am for example), but on the whole, you've got to really want to put yourself out there to get up on a stage and perform, with all the risks that entails. Very few introverts will do that (though some do).

Beck is a narcissist, as is Trent, as is Moby. It's pathological what they do.

Some people do get to taste it all by accident. But for most it is by design.

Kudos to them though. My critique is not a criticism as such. I admire them, though I don't envy them. (including Alec Empire - https://www.alec-empire.com/)


P.S.
Bring back Kore 2.

[codec_spurt]

Yeah. I don't think I agree. I think it's more important having someone experienced in running businesses that are on the music industry. If they had hired a bunch of peeps from Yamaha or Roland or Fender.. I would be , okay, let's see where this goes. But hiring someone with a background in travel e commerce industry or ad sales is iffy. But what do I know. I am just another shmo on the internet.

I believe that both the Fender and Roland Corporations are now owned,or are majority owned by private equity companies...

But of course,the bean counters running the show are passionate about music...

Kaching....kaching $$$

I recall this article not too long ago.

https://www.cmo.com/interviews/articles ... #gs.3gwzzh

Basically, he markets guitars like shoes. More artist co branded products as a result is last few years. Do Fender even make any decent guitars that are.priced right anymore.

Do Fender even make any decent guitars that are.priced right anymore.


What planet are you on?

If you were obsessed by guitars like so many people are, you would know that Fender is kicking it out of the park quality wise, among all manufacturers. Their 'Bullet' line is second to none. Top quality guitars for modding or just playing out of the box for less than a 100 bucks.

Fender needed to do this because the old lawsuit days are gone. Not that there were any law suits. By which I mean, China is making great guitars these days, have been for the last couple of decades, with Fender having manufacturing plants there making guitars in the name of both Fender and Squier.

Do Fender even make any decent guitars that are.priced right anymore.

Yes. Yes they do. They start with the Bullet range then go up from there.

If you want to get to 3000 bucks plus custom shop stuff, well, good luck. That stuff always was and always will be for mugs with too much cash. But 100 bucks buys you a keeper for life, and 200-300-400 bucks buys you a Squier which is also a keeper for life. Go up to 800 bucks if you can and get another keeper with the 'FENDER' logo on the headstock.

Compare to the other big name brand: Gibson. They can't even put a guitar out the factory that works. All the jack connections are broke. The 3 way switch also cuts out. This is on a 1000 bucks guitar! Rip Off.

Fender are known these days for providing just about the most high quality instruments you can get in any price range. If you spend that 1000 bucks, you'll even get extra quality back in return.

But if you only have 100 bucks, you won't get a better, higher QC guitar.

One day I will own one. I got my Gibsons and other brands, but I don't have a real 'FENDER'. One day I will, as long as they keep upping the quality like they have been doing the last years. I'm thinking maybe Telecaster (as I have far too many quality Strats already by other makers).

Fender are just about untouchable at the moment with regard to brand name, quality control, and just downright range of choice. Oh, and low prices. Things will change soon, so grab 'em while you can. But these are some good years for Fender.

Fender are not Gibson. Thank god.

[telecode]

you realize you probably run the chance of offending a lot people here on KvR who happen to be musicians, family people, and very successful business people

It wasn't quite the point I was making either - musicians would of course be great employees for NI, but it would be beneficial to get guidance from others with a strong business background. My point about musicians is that they might be more likely to have 'pet' projects and push them, but if the company needs to focus more on profits then an objective view of the market would be useful.

My point was that to run a company like NI (which is not a wee family business) it's better to have someone skilled in running a business in first place and then (eventually) being a musician at a second place. Not the other way around.

Yeah. I don't think I agree. I think it's more important having someone experienced in running businesses that are on the music industry. If they had hired a bunch of peeps from Yamaha or Roland or Fender.. I would be , okay, let's see where this goes. But hiring someone with a background in travel e commerce industry or ad sales is iffy. But what do I know. I am just another shmo on the internet.

BTW... You are incorrect about musicians knowing nothing about business. Successful musicians that have lasted a long time and had long careers in music industry are very smart and crafty entrepreneur types. Beck, Trent Reznor et la... Much brighter than MBA shmos jumping around with buzz words and far fetched business ideas. The Google AirBNB MBA shmos will just jump somewhere else when it fails... The musicans have nowhere.to jump ship to.. the business and industry is them. It's their livelyhood.

The ousted Gibson guitars former CEO spent his entire career at Gibson. He ran the company since 1986. I would not hire the guy to run another music company.

Beck and Trent Reznor might be very intelligent people. But they might not have the necessary chops to manage large numbers of people. That's a wholly different ball game. You may be intelligent but without the earned life experience of managing large teams of highly competitive sharks you will struggle. I would not be surprised if Beck was an introvert, a lot of musicians are.

Beck and Trent Reznor are probably above average IQ, but probably not much more above that (statistically very few people are). Then again, they may be in that small demographic. There's also the same statistical probability that they are below average IQ (see the Bell Curve theory).

Without knowing their deeper machinations, and appealing to the law of mediocrity, let us just assume that they are average. In other words, intelligence has little to do with this.

And no, they probably don't have the 'chops' to manage large groups of people networked in an organized fashion. No single human does. But you can be sure they have the smarts to be able to delegate, even when they have to abdicate responsibility to higher powers such as managers etc. etc.

So being intelligent doesn't help much in this game. Being unintelligent helps as much because lower IQ people tend to be more distrusting and 'paranoid' of others. It's a survival mechanism. It's crude. And it doesn't work in the short term all the time, but longer game wise, it brings results most the time. See natural selection.

Very few people have the earned life experience of managing large teams of highly competitive sharks.

In fact, if you knew Trent or Beck personally, you would know that they are the biggest sharks that swim in the waters. They are also, first and foremost, and much more than being musicians/producer/songwriters, businessmen.

Some of the most successful businessmen ever to walk this earth. They created, then sold, then managed, then maintained an ideal, an image. And the reason they are top of the tree is because they did it all themselves, with everyone else falling in to second place at their command. They are true moguls. Everyone else around them is just playing catch up and trying not to get beheaded, such is the power of the throne they rule on. Yes, think Game of Thrones.

They are masters of their own destiny, as any exceptional businessman must be. Sure, they are also exceptional musicians/writers/producers too, and sure, they are in the minor part of the demographic world wide, historically... people like them just don't come along very often. But do not conflate that fact with the false assumption they are bad businessmen. That is what I took from your argument. Apologies if I jumped the gun a bit there.

And more than that, Beck and Trent are not just exceptionally good businessmen, they are incredibly good 'rulers' as well. Think 'mafia don'. These people rule with an iron fist. Sometimes they coat it in an iron glove but at othertimes, what the hell eh, pour encourager les autres will just as much be their mantra. IOW they rule through fear. Fear of losing your job, fear of not being accepted in to the clique, fear of losing that sale, fear of being sued, fear of many things.

It is better to be feared than well liked.

Nice people don't get ahead. Ruthless people do.

Now, I'm not saying Beck or Trent torture young kittens; I'm pretty sure they don't. But they don't cut much slack either, of that I'm sure. It's all about them them them, me me me.

Alec Empire is another one of that similar mindset, but he didn't quite hit the big time (Atari Teenage Riot). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alec_Empire

He is still a musical genius. And also an exceptional businessman. But the luck does not flow for everyone the same way. He made a good life and made a success of his career. Just an order of magnitude less. Which is why we aren't talking about him, but about Trent and Beck.


One person we aren't talking about is Moby. He is probably one of the most ruthless businessmen of the 20th Century. He's cultivated an air of 'butter would not melt' as all great assassins do. I've talked about him before and don't want to spend too many more heartbeats on him. You can decide for yourself if he is talented. I think he's 'not bad'. But where he excels is in the sheer ruthlessness of his ability to cull all around him while just focusing on me me me. He absolutely wrecked the whole Mega Dog thing. But why open old wounds. You kinda had to be there. And it's been memory holed pretty much.

Moby makes Beck and Trent look like a pair of little puppies when it comes to how business is done and public image. Beck has that aloof kind of thing going on, and sure, he's aloof alright. Trent has that kind of don't mess with me I'm a crazy ex-goth thing going on, and that's probably true to form as well. But Moby? Lovable cuddly Moby?


All the best and most successful musicians/producers/songwriters are first and foremost successful and brutal businessmen, bar none. To think otherwise is to be naive or engage in magical thinking.

I could give so many examples. Off the top of my head... oohhhh Bill Drummond. Known in the industry for being a 'Shark', but as far as I know, he never ripped anyone off, but then again, he wasn't going to get ripped off by anybody himself. That's probably why he got a million pounds. And burned it. Yeah.

Bill built the KLF up from nothing with Jimmy and they made a real going concern of things. They retired on their own grounds. No one's fools. Sharp practice here and there maybe, but no outright fraud. Just bad bastard businessmen. First and foremost.

That's a pretty good example of what I'm talking about, so I'll leave it there.


On the other side, CEO or multi-billionaires that play instruments or are exceptional musicians? There are a few of them. But again, they are rare even though they do exist. Mostly they are of the super talented kind because to become a billionaire you need to put the time in. Spending 8 hours a day like me, six days a week to become the next David Gilmour only pays off for a small percentage of people. These guys just practiced half an hour a day, once a week and became just about as good as Gilmour was ever going to get.

Extreme musical talent is common. Those that spent the hard earned hours don't want to admit it, and they rarely get to see it, but for most people, especially those people successful in life, those able to live in big houses, travel to any part of the world on a whim, able to maintain their core family, plus maintain their business concerns, well, they just don't care.

Socially, to be a musician is the lowest of the low. These days anyway, it wasn't always this way through history, though sometimes, it was worse than being a 'whore'.

No one cares if you can play guitar as good as Jimmy Hendrix, no one cares if you can write a beautiful ballad, no one cares if you can work an SSL like a musical instrument like Mark 'Spike' Stent.

Sure those achievements will get you invited on to the yacht to party. But you are lauded for your success and your achievements, not your abilities or your best of intentions (and failures). No one cares about your humanity or your musical prowess. No one cares about anything other than quick soundbites to introduce you to the next socialite they can brag about.

Your 'art' counts for f**k all. Do you really think that the rich and powerful or the poor and weak are ever going to say to someone: Oh, your music is really shit!

And musicians/producers/songwriters are the lowest of the low, just about, in the social pecking order. So you better have some Platinum records to back you up...

But it's worse than that. One thing that a lot of musicians/producers/songwriters don't realise is that they are hated by the general population as a whole who see them as egotistical chancers with ideas above their station. They don't care either. They hate your music and they hate you.

There is a reason why musicians/producers/songwriters are held in such contempt. And just to make sure that I end up offending everyone on the forum (not my intention) try telling someone you are a rock-star VST coder like Urs or Didier or Angus! Good luck with that. Even more intangible again, for bragging rights anyway.

Musicians/producers/songwriters, on the whole are not power-mongers.

And neither are VST coders and developers.

OK, maybe with the exception of Native Instruments!



Beck is a power-monger. Trent is a power-monger. Moby is a power-monger.

And if you are reading this post right now, you are probably not.


And on a far off Pacific Island, a multi billionaire whips out his vintage '68 Strat, and he rocks the joint, totally rips it down, on his own personal yacht that has the GDP of a small English Town.


Exceptional musical talent is very common. And just because you excel at business does not mean you won't excel at being a great drummer or guitarist.

It's nice to think the 'idle' rich don't possess skills that we 'tortured souls' do. But it's not true.


Having said all that, it's true, on the whole, making money, power mongering, generally takes a different mind set.

But there are many rich people who could hold their own with the best of musicians. And there are many musicians who are so successful in business they could hold their own with the best of businessmen.

Each has chosen their own poison. That is where they shine their light for you to look. But look a little deeper, and they, like many people, have strength in depth.



Beck was an introvert, a lot of musicians are.

I think you'll find that most introverts don't choose to make music videos and prance around on stage. Some musicians may be introverts (I am for example), but on the whole, you've got to really want to put yourself out there to get up on a stage and perform, with all the risks that entails. Very few introverts will do that (though some do).

Beck is a narcissist, as is Trent, as is Moby. It's pathological what they do.

Some people do get to taste it all by accident. But for most it is by design.

Kudos to them though. My critique is not a criticism as such. I admire them, though I don't envy them. (including Alec Empire - https://www.alec-empire.com/)


P.S.
Bring back Kore 2.

my point is also, they are *real* muscians that are in it for life and that is why they are people that have lasted and survived as trends have come and gone. it has nothing to do with do you like their music or their personality or their politics. They have been around making money and a living from music a lot longer than the Googles and Spotifys and will most probably still be around long after those companies and their ilk are long gone.