Ableton is everywhere...

Plug-in hosts and other software applications discussion
adoomus
KVRer
12 posts since 16 Feb, 2019

Post Wed Oct 09, 2019 11:26 am

Dasheesh wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 2:38 pm
beatmangler443 wrote:
Sun Oct 06, 2019 5:50 pm
Have you guys noticed that Ableton is everywhere right now? You see output have ads with ableton in it (while back), steven slate doing a demo with ana 2, Izotope demo using live in it, reason has it in the background on reasonstudios web page. Then you see digital performer add a session view influenced by ableton. Think Ableton have a big influence right now?
was saying this in 2001. literally. ableton is old now. it's for folks that can't play and rely on prefab beats, and presets.
you must have ableton mistaken for fl studio, as ableton's piano roll is shite for drawing in

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Aloysius
KVRAF
24744 posts since 11 Aug, 2008 from another dimension

Re: Ableton is everywhere...

Post Wed Oct 09, 2019 11:46 am

dupont wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2019 10:48 am
I wonder why on youtube there are more vids of women using Ableton than Reaper ?
Is it because live sounds dull and flat ? :hihi:
They like to give the impression that they are a very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, progressive company.

The more people that can be encouraged to buy Live, the more money they make.
Hi-de-Hi!

charmcitymusic
KVRer
3 posts since 7 Oct, 2019

Re: Ableton is everywhere...

Post Wed Oct 09, 2019 7:21 pm

Dasheesh wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 2:38 pm
beatmangler443 wrote:
Sun Oct 06, 2019 5:50 pm
Have you guys noticed that Ableton is everywhere right now? You see output have ads with ableton in it (while back), steven slate doing a demo with ana 2, Izotope demo using live in it, reason has it in the background on reasonstudios web page. Then you see digital performer add a session view influenced by ableton. Think Ableton have a big influence right now?
was saying this in 2001. literally. ableton is old now. it's for folks that can't play and rely on prefab beats, and presets.
What kind of music do you produce, and what DAW do you use?

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el-bo (formerly ebow)
KVRAF
14069 posts since 24 May, 2009 from A galaxy, far far away

Re: Ableton is everywhere...

Post Wed Oct 09, 2019 10:09 pm

charmcitymusic wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2019 7:21 pm
Dasheesh wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 2:38 pm
beatmangler443 wrote:
Sun Oct 06, 2019 5:50 pm
Have you guys noticed that Ableton is everywhere right now? You see output have ads with ableton in it (while back), steven slate doing a demo with ana 2, Izotope demo using live in it, reason has it in the background on reasonstudios web page. Then you see digital performer add a session view influenced by ableton. Think Ableton have a big influence right now?
was saying this in 2001. literally. ableton is old now. it's for folks that can't play and rely on prefab beats, and presets.
What kind of music do you produce, and what DAW do you use?
Well, like he said, if you're using Ableton then it's "looping 4/4 808 beats". Like this, perhaps:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DWxRjnPXFs

tooneba
KVRian
1108 posts since 6 Nov, 2012

Re: Ableton is everywhere...

Post Thu Oct 10, 2019 6:02 am

oh another IDM...

codec_spurt
KVRAF
3736 posts since 21 Sep, 2005

Re: Ableton is everywhere...

Post Thu Oct 10, 2019 6:14 pm

People whoop on Ableton like it's a DJ or something!

They probably don't get their head around its very different paradigm. Once you do and it clicks, you have to get in to it and go hog wild with how you have a new way of making music.

I taught myself Ableton. I met some guy in a gay bar (probably less said about that the better :party:) who was 'raving' (excuse my poor use of adjective here :lol:) about this new program called 'Ableton'.

After puking my guts up from some dodgy 'cockles' (not something you ever forget :x) I managed to 'source' a copy, and set to work.

Very very frustrating, especially pre-internet world. I think this was like Ableton 4 or something. But it was fully formed, I just could not get my head around it. Till it clicked. Sometimes, the hard way is the best way!

It was unlike any kind of 'linear' paradigm you could imagine. Growing up on Steinberg Pro-24 and the first versions of Atari Cubase v.1.0. it was like nothing else. It absolutely fascinated me. Especially it's eschewing of skeuomorphic design. It was 2D and loud and proud! And that was its sheer genius. And to this day it's what marks it out as an outlier, a maverick among DAWs. Sure Bitwig tags along, and some say it's better in some regards (modulation, automation), but Ableton did it first.

But Ableton isn't really everywhere. It's still got much ground to make to become a household name like Cubase. Sure, us nerdy bods like it, but if you are outside of the electronic music field (techno, drum and bass, trance etc.) then it's likely you will have given it a miss even if you did hear about it.

Now we have programs like REAPER, mimicking its non-linear ability - https://www.helgoboss.org/projects/playtime/

It's a very fun and a very quick way to make music. It's also extremely creative when you see the added ways it can be implemented in Ableton (tip: look on the very right hand of the GUI, right click for options). Very very clever. Very very developed. Very very well implemented. This is mature software.

It also has a decent enough linear mode. Works for me. Very good in fact if you just want to get down to it and knock one out.

Its midi implementation often gets criticised, but again, it works for me, for quick stuff, no fuss. In fact, you can work very very quickly in it after only learning a few basics. The learning curve is not so much for a very high reward. I think it's excellent and I enjoy using it very much. There are some caveats, but really, it does most of what you want to do most of the time.

The people who criticise its midi - I often wonder - are they making and scoring classical music? What the hell are they doing in it that it leaves them so wanting for more? FLStudio is often cited as being everything Ableton is not in the midi department (arrangement wise), but FLStudio is also quirky and a pain to work with if you are not totally familiar with it. It can be very frustrating. I can go back to Ableton after a year of not using it and be knocking out 'beats' in no time. In FLStudio I have to 'doh' this and 'doh' that to get back to where I was after a few months.

So there's that. YMMV.

You also get a pretty amazing 'free' version of it if you buy many types of hardware these days. And even if you don't, you can buy it for a tenner in the market place. I've got a few I'm going to sell myself. It's fully formed and fully featured software. And if you can't make a finished track with it you are in the wrong game. A noob doesn't need a hundred tracks. A 'pro' doesn't need a hundred tracks. Maybe those in the middle do...

And finally, let's talk about the biggest criticism about it having poor audio quality. That one has been totally put to bed. The Time-Stretch/Warping algos are no more destructive in certain modes than any other software, but Ableton allows you to do more and employ more types of algos, so yeah, some do leave things a bit wanting. Laws of physics as they apply to audio and DSP! Ableton nulls with the best of 'em.

Anyway, I'm sure this was just a wind up troll job. No probs!

But Ableton is one of the most glorious pieces of software ever created in the DAW domain. Everyone needs to own one copy of it, even if it's the lightest version going. Ableton are very generous in that regard. Ok, the price of the full package is a bit steep - even upgrades are hefty, but it obviously works for them when so many are cracking their softs black and blue anyway.

And, as has been noted, it's a great compliment to any linear DAW. That's why many employ FLStudio as well in that regard. It does things and works in ways that the other software doesn't. And you can even use all of them together. Ableton via ReWire. FLStudio as a VST. And your DAW of choice, gluing them all together.

When the spice flows in Ableton, it really flows, and your cup will runneth over!

It's a top 5 desert island DAW in anyone's book. A masterpiece of design. Of form, of function. It just doesn't get better than Live!
"you're all GUI whores." - banned KVR member 'snooky'.

vertibration
KVRist
74 posts since 11 Nov, 2010 from ny

Re: Ableton is everywhere...

Post Thu Oct 10, 2019 7:26 pm

People who dont get it, its really not all that hard to get. Just watch some youtube beginner videos. Honestly, no other DAW is faster and more efficient with the time it takes to get things done period

Biscotto
KVRist
295 posts since 29 Jun, 2009

Re: Ableton is everywhere...

Post Thu Oct 10, 2019 8:06 pm

I use mostly Bitwig but, no matter what, I still can’t work as fast as in Ableton.

In fact I got Modulat (Signal) by Isotonik for Ableton to have a similar modulation ability that I’m now enjoy in Bitwig and..... wow!
Bitwig.Live/Modulat.Reason.Omnisphere.u-he.Fathom.Arcsyn.TAL

dupont
KVRian
778 posts since 23 Jun, 2007

Re: Ableton is everywhere...

Post Fri Oct 11, 2019 3:49 am

I work with Ableton and Reaper for techno music (also with S1 and LPX)
I have still been waiting for evidences that live is faster than reaper for music writing !
In Reaper you can have several shortcuts that vastly improve your workflow.
In Reaper there are : AI clips, ripple editing, multi level freeze, advance media/project bay, ghost clips, track view management (usefull to hide unused track for multi ouputs instruments), can't do that in live.
On the contrary with live I lost time jamming in the session view and after laying down some ideas I must switch them in the arrange view. So why not spend time in the arrange view at first ?
In Live I also don't like that the stock plugins are stuck in the bottom window and for 3 rd party plugin, before automating a parameter, It must be first assign.

Biscotto
KVRist
295 posts since 29 Jun, 2009

Re: Ableton is everywhere...

Post Fri Oct 11, 2019 6:14 am

dupont wrote:
Fri Oct 11, 2019 3:49 am
I work with Ableton and Reaper for techno music (also with S1 and LPX)
I have still been waiting for evidences that live is faster than reaper for music writing !
In Reaper you can have several shortcuts that vastly improve your workflow.
In Reaper there are : AI clips, ripple editing, multi level freeze, advance media/project bay, ghost clips, track view management (usefull to hide unused track for multi ouputs instruments), can't do that in live.
On the contrary with live I lost time jamming in the session view and after laying down some ideas I must switch them in the arrange view. So why not spend time in the arrange view at first ?
In Live I also don't like that the stock plugins are stuck in the bottom window and for 3 rd party plugin, before automating a parameter, It must be first assign.
You don’t need evidences.
Whatever works for you. I also have Reaper and for me has been the most uninspiring DAW I ever used. I also worked in S1 and less in LPX. Not even close to Ableton for me of course. There you have it. Mine are probably useless evidence for you....
Bitwig.Live/Modulat.Reason.Omnisphere.u-he.Fathom.Arcsyn.TAL

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fmr
KVRAF
8887 posts since 16 Mar, 2003 from Porto - Portugal

Re: Ableton is everywhere...

Post Fri Oct 11, 2019 6:43 am

v1o wrote:
Sun Oct 06, 2019 6:32 pm
The most stable DAW over the years have been Cubase and Logic.
And Digital Performer, which predates both of them :wink:
Fernando (FMR)

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Tj Shredder
KVRAF
3157 posts since 6 Jan, 2017 from Outer Space

Re: Ableton is everywhere...

Post Fri Oct 11, 2019 7:52 am

Dasheesh wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 3:57 pm
i just had a little fun and pulled this out of my long forgotten back up drawer. it was the upgrade that i bought.
Can you beat that? Ableton didn't exist yet and Robert was just learning, and could not make the first prototype as MSP did not exist yet...
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