Is macOS Catalina A Step Forward Against Software Piracy?

DSP, Plug-in and Host development discussion.
Etienne1973
KVRian
542 posts since 8 Feb, 2013 from Switzerland

Post Thu Oct 17, 2019 8:56 am

mladi wrote:
Thu Oct 17, 2019 8:48 am
frizzbee wrote:
Thu Oct 17, 2019 8:16 am
oh the apple sheriffs got triggered :lol: anyways no audio software on apple = no piracy there. problem solved and all are fine with it. maybe it's heading exactly in that direction who knows. else i don't see what catalina does so different besides causing trouble.
This thread looks like OP thought: Let's find a reason to start some kind of a pro catalina thread that hopefully will lead the attention away from all the other threads.
Bullshit! :x

All I want is to hear from developers themselves about this specific subject b/c I heard from Urs (U-he) something positive. :help:

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Forgotten
KVRAF
5177 posts since 15 Apr, 2019 from Nowhere

Re: Is macOS Catalina A Step Forward Against Software Piracy?

Post Thu Oct 17, 2019 8:57 am

...or it could be...now stay with me on this one, as I’m just spitballing here...it could be that...he’s asking developers opinions on a speculation about Catalina and security...after all, this is in the DSP and development forum...

Maybe not every thread is an evil plot by Apple and its international network of agents...?

BlueprintInc
KVRist
97 posts since 9 Apr, 2017

Re: Is macOS Catalina A Step Forward Against Software Piracy?

Post Thu Oct 17, 2019 9:17 am

Can't get into detail but I've meanwhile spent many days getting our copy protection (a simple keyfile) back to work with at least a bit of security. So far Catalina broke that and made it less secure.

Notarization/Signing itself isn't bad, Avid does that with ProTools and AAX plugins. But that doesn't mean piracy is gone then. There are still cracked plugins working with ProTools either by loading them direct or via some wrapper/hoster. That will happen with macOS too (think about the appstore that still distributes illegal content all the time and can even easily be jailbreaked). Unlike AAX, the notarization with Catalina is more painful and didn't work reliable so far.

What does OP exactly think are the new advantages that should help the fight?

matt42
KVRian
1133 posts since 9 Jan, 2006

Re: Is macOS Catalina A Step Forward Against Software Piracy?

Post Thu Oct 17, 2019 9:23 am

Edit
Last edited by matt42 on Fri Oct 18, 2019 1:28 am, edited 1 time in total.

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mladi
KVRian
700 posts since 14 Apr, 2016 from Germany

Re: Is macOS Catalina A Step Forward Against Software Piracy?

Post Thu Oct 17, 2019 9:26 am

Forgotten wrote:
Thu Oct 17, 2019 8:57 am
...or it could be...now stay with me on this one, as I’m just spitballing here...it could be that...he’s asking developers opinions on a speculation about Catalina and security...after all, this is in the DSP and development forum...

Maybe not every thread is an evil plot by Apple and its international network of agents...?
Sure, i see that the OP as an end-user is very keen to get the latest infos about a subject that didn't have to concern him at all. Very important for an end-user: Not so much the breaking of compatibility but how's is piracy protection going from dev pov. Sure.
Last edited by mladi on Thu Oct 17, 2019 9:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
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mladi
KVRian
700 posts since 14 Apr, 2016 from Germany

Re: Is macOS Catalina A Step Forward Against Software Piracy?

Post Thu Oct 17, 2019 9:28 am

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Forgotten
KVRAF
5177 posts since 15 Apr, 2019 from Nowhere

Re: Is macOS Catalina A Step Forward Against Software Piracy?

Post Thu Oct 17, 2019 9:30 am

mladi wrote:
Thu Oct 17, 2019 9:26 am
Forgotten wrote:
Thu Oct 17, 2019 8:57 am
...or it could be...now stay with me on this one, as I’m just spitballing here...it could be that...he’s asking developers opinions on a speculation about Catalina and security...after all, this is in the DSP and development forum...

Maybe not every thread is an evil plot by Apple and its international network of agents...?
Sure, i see that the OP as an end-user is very keen to get the latest infos about a subject that didn't have to concern him at all. Very important for an end-user: Not so much the breaking of compatibility but how's is piracy protection going from dev pov. Sure.
It doesn’t have to concern him, but what’s wrong with having an inquisitive mind?

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Urs
u-he
24088 posts since 8 Aug, 2002 from Berlin

Re: Is macOS Catalina A Step Forward Against Software Piracy?

Post Fri Oct 18, 2019 12:40 am

Etienne1973 wrote:
Thu Oct 17, 2019 8:56 am
All I want is to hear from developers themselves about this specific subject b/c I heard from Urs (U-he) something positive. :help:
While I could not care less for notarisation (the big thing that some developers whinge about), I have always been in favour of enforcing code signatures. From Catalina on, developers are required to add an extra step in their build system which requires a few extra seconds on release builds - this step was officially required for, I don't know, 10 years already...? It also requires a paid Apple developer membership (which is a lot cheaper than developing for Windows using the "official" tool chain). As a result, the OS and the host software can verify if a plug-in was tampered with (malware, cracks).

I'm sure this can be circumvented by people who wish to deal with cracked software. But it surely will reduce "casual piracy" by a fair margin, particularly in environments where people actually use the software.

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Urs
u-he
24088 posts since 8 Aug, 2002 from Berlin

Re: Is macOS Catalina A Step Forward Against Software Piracy?

Post Fri Oct 18, 2019 12:47 am

BlueprintInc wrote:
Thu Oct 17, 2019 9:17 am
What does OP exactly think are the new advantages that should help the fight?
As I wrote elsewhere, looking at the heartbreaking Catalina threads in warez forums makes my eyes all teary.

Also, it's about time to fade out 32 bit development. One obstacle less. We'll keep our existing workflow up for the time being, but in one or two years when that build server dies, we'll go 64 bit only.

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Richard_Synapse
KVRian
947 posts since 20 Dec, 2010

Re: Is macOS Catalina A Step Forward Against Software Piracy?

Post Fri Oct 18, 2019 7:23 am

To us the Mac piracy has declined long before OS X 10.15, at least it seems this way, I could be wrong of course :) But yes, OS X 10.15 would make it yet more unlikely to occur.

Richard
Synapse Audio Software - www.synapse-audio.com

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mgw38
KVRAF
2072 posts since 26 Jul, 2015 from Philadelphia

Re: Is macOS Catalina A Step Forward Against Software Piracy?

Post Fri Oct 18, 2019 8:23 am

Thank you for these comments! I am not a professional software developer myself but I am an educator who deals a lot with software development from an educational perspective.

In my experience the way people talk about their software and their approach to software development - in particular how they talk about it to their customers - is usually also an indicator about the quality of their code. And as an end consumer this is really the only way I can evaluate that. That is also why the recent meltdown of some developers is so puzzling to me. If they do not care about what they are doing with respect to the platform I am using, how can I be sure that their software is worthwhile my time? I am speaking as someone who evaluates a lot of student projects.

And how can it be that developers are bothered by the amount of effort needed to adjust their workflow to the new requirements (many of which, as you pointed out, have de facto been in effect for quite some time) and yet find the time to rant on for what now literally are hundreds of pages of self reinforcing posts in KVR echo chambers? I just don't get it.

In this day and age I feel the need to add the following disclaimer: I am currently using the Apple ecosystem, not necessarily because I am a fan, but because every time I switched to other platforms (I once managed to stay almost a year with an Android phone) I ended up coming back. When it comes to providing a consistent user experience across highly heterogeneous devices, there is currently simply no other viable choice. That does not mean that my next music production system might not be Windows based.

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el-bo (formerly ebow)
KVRAF
14936 posts since 24 May, 2009 from A galaxy, far far away

Re: Is macOS Catalina A Step Forward Against Software Piracy?

Post Fri Oct 18, 2019 8:50 am

mgw38 wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 8:23 am
Thank you for these comments! I am not a professional software developer myself but I am an educator who deals a lot with software development from an educational perspective.

In my experience the way people talk about their software and their approach to software development - in particular how they talk about it to their customers - is usually also an indicator about the quality of their code. And as an end consumer this is really the only way I can evaluate that. That is also why the recent meltdown of some developers is so puzzling to me. If they do not care about what they are doing with respect to the platform I am using, how can I be sure that their software is worthwhile my time? I am speaking as someone who evaluates a lot of student projects.

And how can it be that developers are bothered by the amount of effort needed to adjust their workflow to the new requirements (many of which, as you pointed out, have de facto been in effect for quite some time) and yet find the time to rant on for what now literally are hundreds of pages of self reinforcing posts in KVR echo chambers? I just don't get it.

In this day and age I feel the need to add the following disclaimer: I am currently using the Apple ecosystem, not necessarily because I am a fan, but because every time I switched to other platforms (I once managed to stay almost a year with an Android phone) I ended up coming back. When it comes to providing a consistent user experience across highly heterogeneous devices, there is currently simply no other viable choice. That does not mean that my next music production system might not be Windows based.
Indeed!

Butwug
KVRist
321 posts since 26 Oct, 2018

Re: Is macOS Catalina A Step Forward Against Software Piracy?

Post Fri Oct 18, 2019 1:23 pm

mgw38 wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 8:23 am

In this day and age I feel the need to add the following disclaimer: I am currently using the Apple ecosystem, not necessarily because I am a fan, but because every time I switched to other platforms (I once managed to stay almost a year with an Android phone) I ended up coming back. When it comes to providing a consistent user experience across highly heterogeneous devices, there is currently simply no other viable choice. That does not mean that my next music production system might not be Windows based.
Former Apple hater here. Well truth be told, I still hate Apple but I hate android phones and windows even more (I hate everything :lol: ). When my XP rig was done for, I got a new windows rig and disliked it almost immediately but lived with it for a year. Got an iphone for free and was like hmmmm this phone is great. Ended up buying a Mac and immediately clicked with it. Have an ipad pro and airpods, and the way everything integrates is way beyond anything else available. Everything runs as smooth as the day I bought it. Something that cant be said for windows and androids phones that I had. Not a fanboy by any means, but I am a fan. If a company can give me similar real world performance, user experience as Apple does, I wouldnt hesitate to buy. For now, Ill stick to Apple. In the future, that may change. Also, if Urs is cool with it, Im cool with it (definitely a Uhe fanboy.)

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Forgotten
KVRAF
5177 posts since 15 Apr, 2019 from Nowhere

Re: Is macOS Catalina A Step Forward Against Software Piracy?

Post Fri Oct 18, 2019 1:30 pm

It's really odd how so many people attribute being an end user of Apple products with being rabid fanbois who are totally blind to being enslaved to an evil empire.

I used to use Windows more often than MacOS, but got frustrated with various hardware issues and unsolvable crashes. I haven't really had much in the way of issues since getting my last MacBook (nor with previous Macs), so I'm good with what I've got. It's also made connectivity with my iPad a lot easier (and I prefer an iPad over other tablets for music making for obvious reasons).

I've never really hated any of the manufacturers as they all have their good and bad aspects, but find it really strange that no one ever called me a Microsoft fanboi while I was using Windows, but now I get called an Apple fanboi simply by merit of owning an Apple product. :shrug:

Magnut
KVRist
90 posts since 14 Mar, 2017

Re: Is macOS Catalina A Step Forward Against Software Piracy?

Post Fri Oct 18, 2019 1:37 pm

Forgotten wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 1:30 pm
but now I get called an Apple fanboi simply by merit of owning an Apple product
Or maybe just because of your behavior :shrug: :tu:

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